Jump to content


Photo

C&C Renegade Clan Ladder


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
93 replies to this topic

#51 danpaul88

danpaul88

    New Conscript

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 08 June 2006 - 03:59 PM

Ah. This does somewhat illustrate my point. For all I know LMSBC is a completely respectable clan that happens to have one extremely arrogant and unpleasant member in their ranks. But how would I know that, since when I posted a polite grievance on your forums (which has since been deleted, and not by me) the rest of your clan continued flaming me for doing nothing wrong whatsoever?

Perhaps now you see the flaw in generalising Clanwars.cc on the actions of one or two individuals.


Vapour left quite a while back now, and solmyr was banned for being an arrogant moron (not sure what this forums policies are on language etc so I will leave it at that). You might also not be aware but the topic is actually still there, on page 3 (I think) of the noticeboard area. I went to see if I could find anything about this after reading what you said and found it... shocked to see its contents tbh. Solmyr had a nasty talent for... annoying people and inciting flame wars....

This was around December 2004, give or take a month. They were 4v4s - I recall my team was myself, Ahteuhhhh, Remek (WeLoveEA) and Raac3.


According to the topic I mentioned above it was Jan 05, so that fits. At that time I was in hospital recovering from an operation so that explains why I don't remember it, and why I took no action on it.

That might be true - however the activity threshold is one hundred days, in other words over three months. Playing so much as one clanwar at any time in those hundred days will reset the timer so you're good for another three months of inactivity. You can also make yourself immune to automatic deletion by doing one of the following:
1. Winning a cup
2. Registering over 100 wins
3. Contacting the admins and asking them to do it (for example, let's say you e-mailed me and told me you're going to Mars for five months and wanted me to preserve your account. I'd be happy to, it takes me ten seconds to sort that out)

View Post


If that's the case perhaps we might sign up again, I just hope the clan management interface has been improved since I last used it :p I will ask around see if any of our members are interested.

Edited by danpaul88, 08 June 2006 - 04:00 PM.


#52 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:59 PM

Well, it looks like there's an opportunity here for both of us. How about you get your guys to sign up on the ladder and play my clan a few times. I'll give you the chance to prove LMSBC aren't all of Vapour's calibre, and you give me the chance to prove my league works well... sound good?

Add me on MSN for games against my clan Taiwan: sh0wblz@hotmail.com

#53 danpaul88

danpaul88

    New Conscript

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 08 June 2006 - 10:48 PM

I have started an internal vote to see who would be willing to play on a regular basis and so far no-one has said they wouldn't play...

#54 Teryiaki

Teryiaki

    New Conscript

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • XWIS Name: NeS

Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:19 PM

So basically, because we use our smak forums for having fun and goofing off, no one wants to play on the league? I didn't think you could get any more retarded Goz. If you don't want to be a part of the forum flaming and joking around, then don't. Most of the people who do that have been playing for a long time and are very skilled players that really can't be beaten by anyone else inside that very same group of players. Everyone there knows each other and it's fun to talk smak now and again. But what everyone has failed to mention, is that despite Goz and Crimson's negative attitudes, clanwars.cc has managed to recruit several new clans to the league including BBF, BN, GT and plenty more. They choose to play on this league and only use the forum for looking for games, and they did that without whining about it. When in Rome...

#55 Goztow

Goztow

    Corporal

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 09 June 2006 - 01:57 PM

My point still stands: you condemn flaming on Clanwars.cc forums, yet there's much more on Renegadeforums.com and you seem to be fine with that. Hypocrite, anyone?

View Post

Re-read my posts, think for 2 seconds about what i read, then read again and you'll understand that it bothers me as much on renegadeforums.com as it does on yours, however renegadeforums.com are not the subject of this topic.

I have staid nice but I see that people are already starting to flame me, which doesn't surprise me at all.

Ask yourself this question: why do so many clans stay away from your ladder? It's not because they don't know it exists but maybe because they know enough about it not to join up or have joined up and left. Now go on and flame me, tell me i'm uninformed and whatever you like.

Edit: forgot to add that a big part of the flamers on renforums.com are actually people that come from cw.cc.

Edited by Goztow, 09 June 2006 - 02:18 PM.


#56 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 09 June 2006 - 03:56 PM

Re-read my posts, think for 2 seconds about what i read, then read again and you'll understand that it bothers me as much on renegadeforums.com as it does on yours, however renegadeforums.com are not the subject of this topic.

So presumably you're also up in arms about the fact that Renegadeforums.com has been denoted as the official Renegade forums?

Ask yourself this question: why do so many clans stay away from your ladder? It's not because they don't know it exists but maybe because they know enough about it not to join up or have joined up and left. Now go on and flame me, tell me i'm uninformed and whatever you like.

Why should I ask myself when I can simply ask you? Oh wait, last time I asked you, you didn't actually seem to know... You realise that you aren't actually making any valid point here? You're just throwing vague ideas around, and that's all.

Edit: forgot to add that a big part of the flamers on renforums.com are actually people that come from cw.cc.

Big part? Try something like 10-15%, and once again, those 10-15% are NOT REPRESENTATIVES OF CLANWARS.CC any more than the arrogant, spiteful and hate-filled idiots on Renegadeforums.com are official representatives of Renegadeforums.com. If you want an official representative of clanwars.cc, then talk to myself, Trunks, or RenAdmin... and all three of the above handle all league matters in a mature, professional way. If we didn't, surely Electronic Arts wouldn't have trusted us with their official, fully integrated BFME2 ladder, and the hundreds of dollars' worth of prizes they sponsor it with every month, don't you think? Would BigHugeGames have trusted us with a thousand dollars of cold, hard cash as prize money this month? How about the NVidia graphics cards, Logitech G5 mice and ZBoard keyboards etc we've been sponsored with?

But hey. There's a bit of flaming on the forum, just like there is on pretty much every Renegade website, which completely invalidates the fact Clanwars.cc is hands down the best choice by far to run the official Renegade Ladder. If you truly think that, you clearly don't want to support this game and you clearly don't want what's best for it.

#57 [BHS]Crimson

[BHS]Crimson

    Corporal

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ
  • XWIS Name: Crimsson

Posted 09 June 2006 - 07:25 PM

1) I NEVER said RenGuard would bury that site. The thread in question was FAKE. I posted a normal, rational post, and someone used the anonymous posting feature to make posts under my name saying horrible, untrue things like that. I tried to explain this several times in that thread using my ACTUAL account, and then the fricking morons there decided that the posts made by the registered account was "fake me" and the anonymous posts were the real me, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I NEVER NEVER NEVER said anything like that about myself OR about cw.cc. Why the hell would I even think RenGuard would bury a clan ladder? If anything, RenGuard would HELP a clan ladder!

2) I do not and have never had a problem with flaming. I have a problem when people post links to cheat sites, or when they post slanderous lies about RenGuard or any other BHS software. The problem I *do* have is useless spam with no actual conversation. A bunch of retards obsessed with post count.

3) People have been banned for plenty of other reasons besides flaming a moderator. People have also been NOT banned even though they flamed a moderator.

4) I can't even imagine why you would bring up Kholdstare when it's common knowledge in the community that you and others have access to quite a large botnet yourselves.

5) I can't believe you would even SAY that I haven't gotten over it. I have tried at least 4 or 5 times to extend an olive branch. But instead, I am met with endless retardation, asinine assumptions, and immature jokes like "haha ur fat eat a cellphone". And every time I try to post something useful there, I then wonder why the heck I even bothered.

If you want an official clan ladder for Renegade, work WITH me instead of against me. Help me get a software product created that will work WITH XWIS and feed data into the locations that the Renegade client expects them to be, rather than trying to get people to visit some ad-laden third party site.

If your community members would grow the --- up and stop acting like children, they would realize that I always have the best interests of Renegade at heart, and clanning is NO different. If you guys would work WITH me, we could put something together that would get the results fed directly into XWIS itself and provide integrated clanning in the Renegade client rather than the alternative. Your knowledge of a fair ladder as it pertains to clanning would be quite valuable in getting this set up. Let's do this right, instead of half-assed.

#58 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 09 June 2006 - 07:51 PM

1) I NEVER said RenGuard would bury that site. The thread in question was FAKE. I posted a normal, rational post, and someone used the anonymous posting feature to make posts under my name saying horrible, untrue things like that. I tried to explain this several times in that thread using my ACTUAL account, and then the fricking morons there decided that the posts made by the registered account was "fake me" and the anonymous posts were the real me, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I NEVER NEVER NEVER said anything like that about myself OR about cw.cc.

Ah, OK. My bad.

2) I do not and have never had a problem with flaming. I have a problem when people post links to cheat sites

And you think we allow that? The last two people who posted links to cheat sites were suspended for a considerable length of time, and it hasn't happened since. We have an absolute zero tolerance policy on cheating - cheating in a clan match, if proven, earns you an indefinite ban from our leagues on the first offence.

or when they post slanderous lies about RenGuard or any other BHS software.

We don't do that either. A couple of the more slow-witted people on the forum might have some very stupid misconceptions, but calling them slanderous lies is a little OTT.

The problem I *do* have is useless spam with no actual conversation. A bunch of retards obsessed with post count.

And what's the big problem with that? It doesn't hurt anybody, and more often than not it's quite funny...

4) I can't even imagine why you would bring up Kholdstare when it's common knowledge in the community that you and others have access to quite a large botnet yourselves.

No, I don't, and that's the god honest truth. I don't have a botnet and I don't have access to one, and I also don't ask people to use botnets on my behalf. The best connection you can make between me and a botnet is the fact I happen to know someone who has one, just like you do. The fact remains I don't use it, directly or indirectly... can you claim that?

5) I can't believe you would even SAY that I haven't gotten over it. I have tried at least 4 or 5 times to extend an olive branch. But instead, I am met with endless retardation, asinine assumptions, and immature jokes like "haha ur fat eat a cellphone". And every time I try to post something useful there, I then wonder why the heck I even bothered.

That's about a million miles away from the truth of the situation. Again, no Clanwars.cc representatives have done anything remotely immature towards you for a long, long time. I've been flamed by members of your forum more times than I care to remember - have I ever held you responsible for that?

If you want an official clan ladder for Renegade, work WITH me instead of against me. Help me get a software product created that will work WITH XWIS and feed data into the locations that the Renegade client expects them to be, rather than trying to get people to visit some ad-laden third party site.
If you guys would work WITH me, we could put something together that would get the results fed directly into XWIS itself and provide integrated clanning in the Renegade client rather than the alternative. Your knowledge of a fair ladder as it pertains to clanning would be quite valuable in getting this set up. Let's do this right, instead of half-assed.

An automatic league would not be any preferable to the manual league we have now. The manual league works PERFECTLY (calling it "half-assed" is a ludicrous statement made by someone who clearly has never attempted to use it) Automatic leagues generally don't. There is no reason whatsoever to abandon it in favour of an automatic league, especially considering the fact our manual ladder has features which an automatic league would discard. I'll give you some examples: Lobby Wars, built-in tournaments, Sniping games. All of those have been staples of our ladder for a good while and we'd lose them if we went automatic. The current league we use has more functionality than any Renegade clan ladder in history, INCLUDING THE OLD AUTO LEAGUE WE USED TO HAVE.

I'm asking for one thing in this thread and one thing alone: a simple endorsement from XWIS of our ladder. It's up and ready right now, it works absolutely perfectly, it's run promptly and maturely, and it's superior to the alternative you're suggesting, and it's INFINITELY superior to the current state of Renegade's clan support; i.e. nothing. And you call it half-assed? We constantly revamp our system and tailor it based on experience and player feedback. Like I said in the first post, the most recent revamping of the league was barely a week ago, so unless you've made the effort to use it since then, don't call it half-assed.

Edited by MaidenTy1, 09 June 2006 - 08:40 PM.


#59 [BHS]Crimson

[BHS]Crimson

    Corporal

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts
  • Location:Phoenix, AZ
  • XWIS Name: Crimsson

Posted 09 June 2006 - 09:29 PM

And you think we allow that? The last two people who posted links to cheat sites were suspended for a considerable length of time, and it hasn't happened since. We have an absolute zero tolerance policy on cheating - cheating in a clan match, if proven, earns you an indefinite ban from our leagues on the first offence.


I never said I thought you allowed that. There are certainly members of both of our communities who use and encourage cheating, but whether we actually allow them to cheat in our servers is a different story. You accused me of ONLY banning if you flame a moderator. I was simply pointing out that there are other things that will earn you a ban.

And what's the big problem with that? It doesn't hurt anybody, and more often than not it's quite funny...


Sorry, but it got old after the first week and yet it's been going on for years.

I don't have a botnet and I don't have access to one


This is NOT what I've heard.

The fact remains I don't use it, directly or indirectly... can you claim that?


I can absolutely make that claim. I have NEVER used a botnet. The closest I have come is stealing a bunch of bots from someone who was attacking me with them and I gave them all the self-delete command. I have NEVER used a botnet to attack anyone.

That's about a million miles away from the truth of the situation. Again, no Clanwars.cc representatives have done anything remotely immature towards you for a long, long time. I've been flamed by members of your forum more times than I care to remember - have I ever held you responsible for that?


No, and you shouldn't. I have said several times that I don't have a problem with you personally, even though you consistently attack me and my projects (with words, just so we're clear). You are entitled to your opinions and I respect that. Unlike many people, you do manage to make coherent thought and comprehensible arguments. However, the actual leaders of CW do not fall under this category.

--

Maybe you should re-read what I said. I didn't say anything about an automatic league. It's entirely possible to develop a manual league, host the reporting tools on XWIS official servers, and feed the data in the expected format to Renegade clients. If I were making such a tool (as I have planned but probably won't have time for soon), I would use a more enhanced calculation to assign ladder points to clans so that it would still be compatible with the existing Renegade client software. Think about it.

I wouldn't even consider endorsing a league until it was ad-free, if it were up to me. I don't even really approve of the XWIS site having ads, but there's nothing I can do about it.

#60 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 10 June 2006 - 12:01 PM

I never said I thought you allowed that. There are certainly members of both of our communities who use and encourage cheating, but whether we actually allow them to cheat in our servers is a different story. You accused me of ONLY banning if you flame a moderator. I was simply pointing out that there are other things that will earn you a ban.

Ah. So let me be sure I'm understanding you here. You don't have a problem with flaming, but you do have a problem with posting cheat sites and spreading "slanderous lies" about your/BHS' projects. Well, the latter two things definitely aren't problems at our site, and you don't mind the first thing, so what does this mean?
"I have also found that community to be a horrible grouping of idiots with a few respectible members. Anyone can form their own opinion by reading their forums. Read through there and decide for yourself whether such people are capable of doing anything like this."
I was under the impression you're saying Clanwars.cc is incapable of running an official league (despite the phenomenal evidence that we are undoubtedly the best people suited for that) because of forum flaming. Which... is.... something you don't have a problem with.

Sorry, you're losing me...

Sorry, but it got old after the first week and yet it's been going on for years.

Again, big deal... it doesn't hurt anyone. Making a big deal out of some of our forum traditions (Page claims, dedicating post milestones to friends, etc) is pretty stupid...

This is NOT what I've heard.

I can absolutely make that claim. I have NEVER used a botnet. The closest I have come is stealing a bunch of bots from someone who was attacking me with them and I gave them all the self-delete command. I have NEVER used a botnet to attack anyone.

Then it seems we both have one or two misconceptions about each other.

No, and you shouldn't. I have said several times that I don't have a problem with you personally, even though you consistently attack me and my projects (with words, just so we're clear)

I do? :blink:

Unlike many people, you do manage to make coherent thought and comprehensible arguments. However, the actual leaders of CW do not fall under this category.

If by "leaders of CW" you mean the higher admins and the site owner, then you speak of what you do not know. EG those who outrank me would be Patrick/Oompah/CLAN WARS himself, and Trunks. Have a search on our forums - I challenge you to find, say, three posts from either of them in the last year which are immature/arrogant/whatever. Go on - do that and I'll never post on this subject again. Now, that covers the forums which according to you are run by immature monkeys, so surely you'll be able to succeed in that little challenge.
And again, the leagues themselves are run with complete maturity and professionalism. One does not earn an contract from EA themselves to run the official league for a mammoth release of theirs, and sponsorship of thousands of dollars' worth of prizes every month, by running a league unprofessional

Maybe you should re-read what I said. I didn't say anything about an automatic league. It's entirely possible to develop a manual league, host the reporting tools on XWIS official servers, and feed the data in the expected format to Renegade clients. If I were making such a tool (as I have planned but probably won't have time for soon), I would use a more enhanced calculation to assign ladder points to clans so that it would still be compatible with the existing Renegade client software. Think about it.

Why? I say again, it'll still be vastly inferior to what we've got. Why don't you go ahead and make that, and when you're finished and it's half as active as our league, works three-quarters as reliably, requires twice the workload, is (I'm guessing here) ran by admins with half as much skill, experience and most of all: dedication as ours, and has a quarter as much functionality, just remember I told you so.

I wouldn't even consider endorsing a league until it was ad-free, if it were up to me. I don't even really approve of the XWIS site having ads, but there's nothing I can do about it.

You speak as if the CW site is an ad-fest. It isn't. There's a small banner which takes up a very small portion of the page. You're in no way obliged to click them if you aren't interested in what they offer - although here's the catch: they're Google ads. They're related to what the site is about, and since Clanwars.cc is about clan gaming, the ads correspond to such things as companies who offer clan servers, websites and whatnot.... graphics cards, keyboards for gamers.... so as you can imagine, quite a few of our community ARE interested in what they offer.

But you still don't have to click those small, unimposing ads.

Anyway, go ahead and make this new ladder of yours. (Renegade's clan support other than Clanwars.cc has been dying since summer of last year, and in October/November when the servers were handed to XWIS it became literally non-existent, so it's good to know it only took you eight months to get this done. Sorry.... START getting this done. No, wait.... THINK ABOUT STARTING to get this done, when you have the time, of course). I can think of about twenty reasons why it'll be inferior to our current system, but hey, it won't have unimposing adverts which benefit the players, so go team.

Edited by MaidenTy1, 10 June 2006 - 12:08 PM.


#61 Trunks

Trunks

    New Conscript

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 10 June 2006 - 07:41 PM

Lets get back to some facts.

CW.cc is offering a renegade clan ladder. There is none currently. It's run well and kept up to date.

Take it or leave it, it can only help.

Crimson I realize your previous clan had some issues with "Clan CW" in the past, but that has nothing to do with how this ladder is being run. It's not being run by the same people and even if it were, it'd be completely legitimate and fair.

You shouldn't be letting your personal grudge damage the renegade community as a whole. This ladder is a service (and an option) and can only make the game more fun for those who want to use it. Those who do not want to use it are free to stay away.

#62 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 25 June 2006 - 02:54 AM

I've left the choice with Strike Team, but perhaps it might influence their decision to learn that EA are sponsoring the league with free EA games as prizes. (more info is here)

#63 HiTMaN47

HiTMaN47

    New Conscript

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 26 June 2006 - 12:18 PM

wow dude , its not cuz we flame eachother on there like alot rofl ( sometimes its annoying , i'll give u that much) that it's no good at all.. i know spoony is a good guy trying his best for everything related to the league , and stop ur dumb critisism over cw.cc , if u dont like it , please stay out , damn typing to much BYE!

#64 DonCarlo

DonCarlo

    Omertan

  • ST Retirees
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18264 posts

Posted 04 July 2006 - 02:05 PM

we will go ahead and endorse the clanwars.cc ladder for now.
Please note that this will be an endorsement - nothing more or nothing less at this stage and will simply involve a short MOTD on XWIS regarding it and links on the websites.
We will also set up a sub-forum here.

We reserve the right to retract this endorsement at any stage and will review it after some time.
Also endorsement of clanwars does not mean that we exclusivley recommend it or give it any official status on XWIS at this stage, and does not prevent the possibility of other ladders or leagues being recommended in the future.

I will get back to you regarding this in a few days

#65 NeoGrant

NeoGrant

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14914 posts
  • XWIS Name: neo

Posted 04 July 2006 - 05:40 PM

lol duplicate accounts? or is it just me? :confused2:

#66 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 05 July 2006 - 06:29 PM

lol duplicate accounts? or is it just me? :confused2:

View Post

No. Surprised at how many people play Renegade? I think it's more than YR or TS.

#67 Olaf

Olaf

    Commander

  • XWIS Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13446 posts
  • XWIS Name: XTF

Posted 05 July 2006 - 10:32 PM

No. Surprised at how many people play Renegade? I think it's more than YR or TS.

View Post

Online numbers tell a different story for RA2.

#68 MgS

MgS

    Tyler/MG

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3261 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • XWIS Name: MgSnake1

Posted 05 July 2006 - 10:45 PM

i was gana say same thing about dupe accounts lol

No. Surprised at how many people play Renegade? I think it's more than YR or TS.


just because ren has more than yr + ts, which are dying and many yr players moving to ra2, doesnt make it less of a dead game

#69 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 06 July 2006 - 07:24 AM

i was gana say same thing about dupe accounts lol

Why don't you ask a forum admin to IP check each and every one of those accounts?

just because ren has more than yr + ts, which are dying and many yr players moving to ra2, doesnt make it less of a dead game

What are you saying here... you're saying we shouldn't support Renegade as we do? We just had the most active month in Renegade clanwars for over a year, AND earned sponsorship from EA, and have the second most active community of XWIS' four major titles, second to RA2. Not bad for a "dead game"... yes, the game's old, but a weird knack of Clanwars.cc is its ability to keep older games alive for a lot longer, and Renegade's a perfect example.

Online numbers tell a different story for RA2.

Didn't say otherwise.

#70 NeoGrant

NeoGrant

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14914 posts
  • XWIS Name: neo

Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:29 PM

ok dude chill... you probs have a whole network of pc's .. :(

#71 Ravaged

Ravaged

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2989 posts
  • Location:england
  • XWIS Name: ...

Posted 06 July 2006 - 05:55 PM

or good friends?

#72 MaidenTy1

MaidenTy1

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 06 July 2006 - 08:27 PM

-Grant-: "ok dude chill... you probs have a whole network of pc's"
[ES­]blOyalUp: or good friends?

Or maybe Renegade's clan support is desired by a lot more players than most people here realise. Is that so hard to believe? Grant, your accusation was completely 100% false, so perhaps you should just drop it.

Edited by MaidenTy1, 06 July 2006 - 08:29 PM.


#73 NeoGrant

NeoGrant

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14914 posts
  • XWIS Name: neo

Posted 06 July 2006 - 09:11 PM

how old are you?

#74 NeoGrant

NeoGrant

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14914 posts
  • XWIS Name: neo

Posted 06 July 2006 - 09:12 PM

or good friends?

View Post


blah common an account made nearly every minute and posted straight after... :dry:

#75 Ravaged

Ravaged

    Captain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2989 posts
  • Location:england
  • XWIS Name: ...

Posted 06 July 2006 - 09:16 PM

no they are all registered at http://clanwars.cc forums so i guess spoony told them to backhim up here


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users