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CNCNET and STRIKE-TEAM.net Merger?


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#76 hefeweize

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:45 AM

Please close the topic.

We cannot be splitting the community this way. I don't like to see two sides fight each other. That isn't my intention here. BornL33t, that was entirely absurd. Don't forget where you came from, strike-team has done a lot to keep these games alive.

 

It's getting out of hand now. It's done. We're not doing a merger. Olaf and HiFi has their differences, albeit many instances of forming a merger.

 

I disagree to the statement about CNCNET being pirates.. I can't download the cncnet and play Yuri's without actually owning the game. We cannot control wheter or not 'players' private the game or not unless we have some sort of serial protection which Strike-Team has exclusive rights to. Gameranger and other servers (China has a huge population on their own server) do this same thing .CNCNET has a clean polished and fixed way of doing things. 'Free Multiplay' can be easily be a lan game as well. There is no difference here!  I'd pick activity over being limited in how we play and game. It's about the players!

 

Let's be happy that there is other avenues to play the game. It would be awesome if we merged.. Windows 10 is being released, wouldn't it be nice to have active support for this and people willing to work on compatibility? CNCNET's new tech allows us to update the game fairly easily which is why i approve.  But shit happens.

 

Good Luck to both CNCNET and Strike-team. You guys done great.

 

 

PS: If Olaf is willing to communicate with CNCNET, go for it! Mark my word for it, CNCNET will not try to reach out to Olaf anymore. There has been far too many instances of this and it's time for you guys to come to a meaningful proposal or just let it be.


Edited by hefeweize, 20 March 2015 - 06:21 AM.


#77 BornL33T

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 09:51 AM

 

We cannot be splitting the community this way. I don't like to see two sides fight each other. That isn't my intention here. BornL33t, that was entirely absurd. Don't forget where you came from, strike-team has done a lot to keep these games alive.

 

 

First of all i came from Hamachi, then moved to Tunngle and later to XWIS, i know what i'm doing and i don't find it absurd to post a picture about another client, someone here made a tutorial about how to join QQ and it looked legit.

 

I want to play Yuri and if the game here is dead then i will do whatever i want to make sure people know that it's active somewhere else.



#78 SensFaiL

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 02:45 PM

are all cncnet admins and mods uppity and obnoxious, or just the ones promoting the site here?

The funny part is if they were really serious about a "merger" you don't do it on the public forum of the people they want to merge with. My them making it public it opened the door for all the mud slinging posted throughout this thread. It's all been pretty unprofessional and I wouldn't fault XWIS for not going through with any of it. Doesn't really matter at this point whether the merger is good or bad for the games after the display cncnet people have displayed

I think it's also a losing battle because the RTS scene is getting pretty bad in terms of activity sc2 is really the only good RTS going at the moment and even that game can't fight the growing popularity of games like LoL and DOTA.

Edited by SensFaiL, 20 March 2015 - 02:48 PM.


#79 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:00 PM

It probably helps that they constantly advertise the server on the official RA2 Facebook page which has 110K likes, without even being allowed to do so (number one reason why people even know about CNCnet). NeoGrant is the perfect example of what can happen when you give the wrong people too much trust and power. The OFFICIAL Facebook page for RA2 should not be used to advertise some new illegal server but rather to support the official server that's still around. That page has EA written all over it. Too bad EA is not aware about what's going on. Those who try to say there's nothing illegal going on here, have some thinking to do. Just because you "assume" people will purchase the game legally, does not give you any right to treat the game as a F2P game. Why do you think that any self respected game has only one place where you can play it online? The legalities of this should be studied more carefully.

 

As far as a possible "merger" goes, this would mean Olaf would have to throw all his work, the community he built and his "12 year old baby" that he created and maintained, down the drain while also giving some stranger access to the cd key validation system, adding some kind of player redirection and pretty much giving someone else full control of everything he has made. Olaf must be crazy not to accept such a mouthwatering deal like this! hifi mentioned putting Olaf in charge over everything, but I somehow doubt EA would approve of that (since XWIS is still sponsored by EA Games by the way). Although I don't agree with many of Olaf's decisions and lack of collaboration throughout the years, I'm sure he would have tried to do more if he was not limited by the legal aspects of this (here I'm assuming that some of the money he makes when selling game accounts on XWIS goes to EA, otherwise XWIS is just as illegal as CNCnet :p).

 

Although I appreciate all the work that went in creating CNCnet and I played a few RA1 games on there and really enjoyed it, the situations is different when it comes to RA2 and Yuri's Revenge. Sure, keeping it in the shadows and letting people find out about it would not be too bad, but advertising it on the official Facebook page and making it sound like XWIS never even existed is completely unacceptable. "Play Yuri's Revenge Online! It's back!" Back from where? It has always been here. This kind of manipulation is something I frown upon. In any case, perhaps if Olaf was more cooperative and some of the CNCnet admins were a little more understanding, some progress could be made, but as things currently stand, I can only see XWIS losing players and CNCnet having legal problems once they get bigger and someone decides to report them.



#80 hifi

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:04 PM

The funny part is if they were really serious about a "merger" you don't do it on the public forum of the people they want to merge with. My them making it public it opened the door for all the mud slinging posted throughout this thread. It's all been pretty unprofessional and I wouldn't fault XWIS for not going through with any of it. Doesn't really matter at this point whether the merger is good or bad for the games after the display cncnet people have displayed

I think it's also a losing battle because the RTS scene is getting pretty bad in terms of activity sc2 is really the only good RTS going at the moment and even that game can't fight the growing popularity of games like LoL and DOTA.

 

FYI, the discussion went behind the scenes with Olaf in email before and during this thread. It was never public until hefeweize suggested it again (he is not affiliated with CnCNet btw.) on both of our forums. Also I love mud slinging when there is no right answer. If you didn't notice I was a complete dick to Olaf on our forums as well when we discussed about RA2 not requiring port forward and he was right all along that it does NAT traversion one way or another. Olaf's a nice guy really. I never go personal as that would be unprofessional. You guys really need to relax a little.

 

If you didn't notice we don't need XWIS, maybe two years ago we would have really benefited from it player base wise but not anymore really. The players will come regardless if they get better service and they will be the final judge of that. No mud slinging on either side will matter when it comes to playing experience. I have always been against adding TS (sup modders?) and YR support but it was done anyway by other people and I didn't prevent them as that would be sad to hinder development. CnCNet is where you get complete freedom to do your thing and if it's good enough it'll be official. Running a tight development team doesn't really work when it's about people's free time and there are so few of them capable of doing the stuff we do at CnCNet.

 

Being someone who knows the sad state of internal CnCNet affairs, someone might - hopefully will - make a better service one day and the players will move on, maybe CnCNet can be merged into that then, maybe finally EA does C&D CnCNet and the players will move back or somewhere else anyway. Power to the people, it's their community.



#81 NeoGrant

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:31 PM

It probably helps that they constantly advertise the server on the official RA2 Facebook page which has 110K likes, without even being allowed to do so (number one reason why people even know about CNCnet). NeoGrant is the perfect example of what can happen when you give the wrong people too much trust and power. The OFFICIAL Facebook page for RA2 should not be used to advertise some new illegal server but rather to support the official server that's still around. 

Not being allowed to do so? Under what rule is that on Facebook? Take this:

 

If I made that page (which I did), built it up to where it is today (which I did), spent my own $$ on promoting (which I did), and yet somewhere along the line you're now telling me I'm not allowed to advertise on it, because XWIS is the official server, how is that fair?  Just so you know, I didn't approve an official status on that page, probably Facebook or some other admin to the page (since I'm no longer admin anyway - was demoted).  It's funny how you create something, no-one would give a rats arse about when its at 50 likes, put it up to 100k and everyone wants a piece of the pie.

 

If you can't remember, I actually spent a lot of my time here pushing for change and advertised for XWIS the same, and yet despite raising the issue within staff here that its too bloody complicated to get onto the server, you can see why no-one actually bothered in the end despite best efforts.

 

Introduce a "download & play" mechanism which CnCNet did, you have lift off.


Edited by NeoGrant, 20 March 2015 - 04:33 PM.


#82 hifi

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:39 PM

It probably helps that they constantly advertise the server on the official RA2 Facebook page which has 110K likes, without even being allowed to do so (number one reason why people even know about CNCnet). NeoGrant is the perfect example of what can happen when you give the wrong people too much trust and power. The OFFICIAL Facebook page for RA2 should not be used to advertise some new illegal server but rather to support the official server that's still around. That page has EA written all over it. Too bad EA is not aware about what's going on. Those who try to say there's nothing illegal going on here, have some thinking to do. Just because you "assume" people will purchase the game legally, does not give you any right to treat the game as a F2P game. Why do you think that any self respected game has only one place where you can play it online? The legalities of this should be studied more carefully.

 

As far as I've been told. The page wasn't official official, someone just tagged it "official" and suddenly it became a thing. The advertising on Facebook might have been a bit too much. I don't take personal responsibility of running that campaign so I can't answer for that.

 

YR is free-to-play online game, there's no monthly fee. It's not free-to-own. Again we can't do anything about piracy. Would you rather see people not trying to improve the playing experience just because it might allow pirates to play? Aren't it regardless good for the game itself that it has an active community despite not all of the players playing with a legal copy? There are many gaming communities focused on older games that run solely on pirate copies because it's impossible to buy some of the games anymore. YR is an exception because there are many ways to obtain a legit key still.

 

What you could challenge are the actual modifications to the game executable. At the same time some of the great mods could be questioned as well (Mental Omega and others that are using Ares). If you didn't notice XWIS is also spreading a multiplayer cracked copy of the game. It's meant to be used on XWIS only with a legit key, but people can abuse it to play on CnCNet as well. This was not our doing and we can't really realistically prevent people from using that.

 

As far as a possible "merger" goes, this would mean Olaf would have to throw all his work, the community he built and his "12 year old baby" that he created and maintained, down the drain while also giving some stranger access to the cd key validation system, adding some kind of player redirection and pretty much giving someone else full control of everything he has made. Olaf must be crazy not to accept such a mouthwatering deal like this! hifi mentioned putting Olaf in charge over everything, but I somehow doubt EA would approve of that (since XWIS is still sponsored by EA Games by the way). Although I don't agree with many of Olaf's decisions and lack of collaboration throughout the years, I'm sure he would have tried to do more if he was not limited by the legal aspects of this (here I'm assuming that some of the money he makes when selling game accounts on XWIS goes to EA, otherwise XWIS is just as illegal as CNCnet :p).

 

Although I appreciate all the work that went in creating CNCnet and I played a few RA1 games on there and really enjoyed it, the situations is different when it comes to RA2 and Yuri's Revenge. Sure, keeping it in the shadows and letting people find out about it would not be too bad, but advertising it on the official Facebook page and making it sound like XWIS never even existed is completely unacceptable. "Play Yuri's Revenge Online! It's back!" Back from where? It has always been here. This kind of manipulation is something I frown upon. In any case, perhaps if Olaf was more cooperative and some of the CNCnet admins were a little more understanding, some progress could be made, but as things currently stand, I can only see XWIS losing players and CNCnet having legal problems once they get bigger and someone decides to report them.

 

Olaf doesn't need to throw anything away. You don't know the actual details that has been discussed. If he had shown any indication of it being a possibility and opening broader discussion it could have had a completely different direction. It could start by writing a unified client for all games and it could be all under Olaf's belt. Nothing of old CnCNet needs to be left around. We are understanding, or I think I am. I've been open to any suggestion or idea how to get this thing done but the stance is that Olaf... something, he doesn't really say anything. It seems everyone thinks that merging with CnCNet would mean that XWIS is a redirector to cncnet.org and that's it, it was only one of the less popular suggestions and it would never go down like that.

 

Only regret I would have is that XWIS would rip off some of the CnCNet tech (or design regarding the integration) and create its own thing without our assistance as we have many bright minds who would like to contribute to such effort and not being open to any help would be devastating to all of them. More so after how many hours have been put into it and it would not be used to create something more beautiful or credit not properly given for their efforts.

 

Here at CnCNet I'm very strict about giving everyone their well deserved credit for what they have done. When people thank me for CnCNet I always tell them about the people who have worked towards their improved playing experience and I also tell them I haven't really done a thing for a long time as that's true. I designed CnCNet 5, wrote some initial hacks but other people really made it run.



#83 BornL33T

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:39 PM

It probably helps that they constantly advertise the server on the official RA2 Facebook page which has 110K likes, without even being allowed to do so (number one reason why people even know about CNCnet). NeoGrant is the perfect example of what can happen when you give the wrong people too much trust and power. The OFFICIAL Facebook page for RA2 should not be used to advertise some new illegal server but rather to support the official server that's still around. That page has EA written all over it. Too bad EA is not aware about what's going on. Those who try to say there's nothing illegal going on here, have some thinking to do. Just because you "assume" people will purchase the game legally, does not give you any right to treat the game as a F2P game. Why do you think that any self respected game has only one place where you can play it online? The legalities of this should be studied more carefully.

 

 

Everyone do that, GR, Tunngle, QQ, torrent websites, ROM websites..(they all legit)

As for XWIS fb page i don't think it helped CNCNET as the most part of the followers are RA2 players.

 

But let me tell you 2 things:

Fact #1: XWIS Yuri lobby = 0 activity = a graveyard

Fact #2: CNCNET after barely 1 month of starting Yuri client = more than 80 active players

 

If you don't like Yuri then keep away and don't play it, Grant was the only admin who cared about the game but so far he got screwed.



#84 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:17 PM

As far as I've been told. The page wasn't official official, someone just tagged it "official" and suddenly it became a thing. The advertising on Facebook might have been a bit too much. I don't take personal responsibility of running that campaign so I can't answer for that.

In that case, the whole page is illegal since it uses the game's full and original name without making any kind of distinction that the page is not official. You can't simply create or use a Facebook page if you don't have the legal right to do so. Not to mention that owning the domain name "yurisrevenge.com" and using it to advertise an illegal server is not legal either.
 

YR is free-to-play online game, there's no monthly fee. It's not free-to-own. Again we can't do anything about piracy. Would you rather see people not trying to improve the playing experience just because it might allow pirates to play? Aren't it regardless good for the game itself that it has an active community despite not all of the players playing with a legal copy? There are many gaming communities focused on older games that run solely on pirate copies because it's impossible to buy some of the games anymore. YR is an exception because there are many ways to obtain a legit key still.

No, it's not free-to-play online since you need to pay for the game to play online. You can't make this distinction between F2P and F2P-online since you actually have to pay for the game in order to play it online (one time fee). Without paying the one time fee, you can't play online. It's definitely good for the game, but it's still illegal. Hopefully CnCNet won't run into any legal problems.
 

What you could challenge are the actual modifications to the game executable. At the same time some of the great mods could be questioned as well (Mental Omega and others that are using Ares). If you didn't notice XWIS is also spreading a multiplayer cracked copy of the game. It's meant to be used on XWIS only with a legit key, but people can abuse it to play on CnCNet as well. This was not our doing and we can't really realistically prevent people from using that.

At least those modders don't run around saying "FREE TO PLAY YURI'S REVENGE!!! DOWNLOAD NOW!!".
 

Olaf doesn't need to throw anything away. You don't know the actual details that has been discussed. If he had shown any indication of [. . .]

Thanks for the clarifications. However, I highly doubt the other members of the CnCNet team would be fond of the idea of having Olaf run it, so I think this is just your own personal view.
 

Everyone do that, GR, Tunngle, QQ, torrent websites, ROM websites..(they all legit)
As for XWIS fb page i don't think it helped CNCNET as the most part of the followers are RA2 players.

Legit websites?! I don't think there's anything legit about playing RA2 / Yuri's on them. Yuri's Revenge does not have a Facebook page so most fans look at the RA2 page instead. Just look at the number of "likes", shares and comments each CnCNet post receives and then try to say that it didn't help. Here's an example from a single post made last week about Yuri's on CnCNet. Do you think that helped bring activity to CnCNet or no?
norm_550c57efb5a8489813.jpg
 

But let me tell you 2 things:
Fact #1: XWIS Yuri lobby = 0 activity = a graveyard
Fact #2: CNCNET after barely 1 month of starting Yuri client = more than 80 active players
 
If you don't like Yuri then keep away and don't play it, Grant was the only admin who cared about the game but so far he got screwed.

That's for several different reasons. First of all, XWIS never really used social media properly to advertise XWIS. Second of all, you need to own the game to play on XWIS as opposed to CnCNet where everyone with a pirated copy can play. I really doubt Grant had much to do with CnCNet other than creating a design and illegally advertising CnCNet on the main Facebook page which he shouldn't even have access to.


Edited by dsector, 20 March 2015 - 05:29 PM.


#85 BornL33T

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:46 PM

Seriously..are you upset to see the ppls who left xwis because it's empty and full funnyb~4.mpr players have found a good place to play their favorite game? do you rather they stop playing cuz CNCNET client dosn't look so 'legit'?

If so GR and Tunngle deserves your attention too.



#86 NeoGrant

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:02 PM

In that case, the whole page is illegal since it uses the game's full and original name without making any kind of distinction that the page is not official. You can't simply create or use a Facebook page if you don't have the legal right to do so. Not to mention that owning the domain name "yurisrevenge.com" and using it to advertise an illegal server is not legal either.
 

No, it's not free-to-play online since you need to pay for the game to play online. You can't make this distinction between F2P and F2P-online since you actually have to pay for the game in order to play it online (one time fee). Without paying the one time fee, you can't play online. It's definitely good for the game, but it's still illegal. Hopefully CnCNet won't run into any legal problems.
 

At least those modders don't run around saying "FREE TO PLAY YURI'S REVENGE!!! DOWNLOAD NOW!!".
 

Thanks for the clarifications. However, I highly doubt the other members of the CnCNet team would be fond of the idea of having Olaf run it, so I think this is just your own personal view.
 

Legit websites?! I don't think there's anything legit about playing RA2 / Yuri's on them. Yuri's Revenge does not have a Facebook page so most fans look at the RA2 page instead. Just look at the number of "likes", shares and comments each CnCNet post receives and then try to say that it didn't help. Here's an example from a single post made last week about Yuri's on CnCNet. Do you think that helped bring activity to CnCNet or no?
norm_550c57efb5a8489813.jpg
 

That's for several different reasons. First of all, XWIS never really used social media properly to advertise XWIS. Second of all, you need to own the game to play on XWIS as opposed to CnCNet where everyone with a pirated copy can play. I really doubt Grant had much to do with CnCNet other than creating a design and illegally advertising CnCNet on the main Facebook page which he shouldn't even have access to.

 

Question: How are you defining an illegal server?  Just curious as what selling numbers, distributing game files, and game music is defined as?

 

Ooh nice spot. Yes that happened because of budget like I mentioned (but you seem to avoid what I post) You see money gets you somewhere, add a budget and some short powerful straplines and magic, you have engagement.

 

Here's your post with money put behind it.  (Edit: Dark orange is paid reach)

boostedexample.jpg

 

And for when its not.

nonboost.jpg


Edited by NeoGrant, 20 March 2015 - 06:05 PM.


#87 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:03 PM

Seriously..are you upset to see the ppls who left xwis because it's empty and full funnyb~4.mpr players have found a good place to play their favorite game? do you rather they stop playing cuz CNCNET client dosn't look so 'legit'?
If so GR and Tunngle deserves your attention too.

Why would I be upset? Nothing is permanent. Besides, I don't really play games and I didn't defend XWIS anywhere so you probably need to read more carefully.
 

Question: How are you defining an illegal server?  Just curious as what selling numbers, distributing game files, and game music is defined as?
 
Ooh nice spot. Yes that happened because of budget like I mentioned (but you seem to avoid what I post) You see money gets you somewhere, add a budget and some short powerful straplines and magic, you have engagement.
 
Here's your post with money put behind it.  (Edit: Dark orange is paid reach)
attachicon.gifboostedexample.jpg
 
And for when its not.
attachicon.gifnonboost.jpg

Why don't you advertise the Facebook CnCNet page in that case rather than the main RA2 page and avoid Facebook copyright infringement? Did you talk to EA Games about what you're doing? Did you know XWIS is sponsored by EA Games and is considered the official server? Did you know you have no right to have admin privileges on that page? Did you know you're not allowed to create or use a Facebook page that does not represent you or your company in any way? I like how you ignored all my other points since you really don't have a logical argument.

Here's how I define an illegal server:
- manufacturer (EA Games) does not make any money since anyone can play with a pirated copy
- game files have been altered with (XWIS did this as well but at least EA knows about XWIS and it's the official server for the game which still brings EA some money)
- no cd key validation required. Most RA2 / Yuri's fans in the world have an illegal copy of the game. You're basically allowing all of them to play while pretending it's the official server.

To prove me wrong, you can contact EA games and see if they think it's legal what CnCNet is doing.

I really don't have anything against CnCNet and like I said, the work done is appreciated, but I just think you should be more careful with the legal aspects so you won't have bigger problems later on.

Edited by dsector, 20 March 2015 - 06:31 PM.


#88 NeoGrant

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:17 PM

Yuri's Revenge does not have a Facebook page so most fans look at the RA2 page instead. 

Wrong. Yuri's revenge page (Created that one too btw) https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2YurisRevenge

 

 

First of all, XWIS never really used social media properly to advertise XWIS. 

I'm curious to see how you would have used it 'properly'. XWIS was the main advertised page out there.



#89 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:26 PM

Wrong. Yuri's revenge page (Created that one too btw) https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2YurisRevenge

What do you mean by "too"? You didn't create the RA2 one. Besides, anyone can create a Facebook page for anything. That doesn't mean they're allowed to ;) You'd have to contact EA Games if you're going to advertise CnCNet on that page. You don't represent the brand C&C or Red Alert in any way. Those names are trademarked.
 

I'm curious to see how you would have used it 'properly'. XWIS was the main advertised page out there.

I would have posted at least a weekly stream of online play on XWIS, I would have made a clear step by step guide on how to play online, I would have given away 200-300 serial numbers in different types of Facebook contests etc. Things that I wouldn't have done: promote other unofficial servers, remove other XWIS admins from having access to the page (like you did). You didn't even have the decency to post one of my streams on the page or at least to reply back to my message on Facebook.

EDIT:

Not being allowed to do so? Under what rule is that on Facebook? Take this:

If I made that page (which I did), built it up to where it is today (which I did), spent my own $$ on promoting (which I did), and yet somewhere along the line you're now telling me I'm not allowed to advertise on it, because XWIS is the official server, how is that fair? Just so you know, I didn't approve an official status on that page, probably Facebook or some other admin to the page (since I'm no longer admin anyway - was demoted). It's funny how you create something, no-one would give a rats arse about when its at 50 likes, put it up to 100k and everyone wants a piece of the pie.

If you can't remember, I actually spent a lot of my time here pushing for change and advertised for XWIS the same, and yet despite raising the issue within staff here that its too bloody complicated to get onto the server, you can see why no-one actually bothered in the end despite best efforts.

Introduce a "download & play" mechanism which CnCNet did, you have lift off.

Completely missed this post somehow. Under this rule you're not allowed to:
 

Facebook Pages Terms
The following terms, as well as our Data Policy and Statement of Rights and Responsibilities, apply to all Pages on Facebook. Additionally, all content on Pages must comply with our Community Standards. You are responsible for ensuring that your Page complies with all applicable laws, statutes, and regulations.
I. General
A. A Page for a brand, entity (place or organization), or public figure may be administered only by an authorized representative of that brand, entity (place or organization) or public figure (an “official Page”).
B. Any user may create a Page to express support for or interest in a brand, entity (place or organization), or public figure, provided that it does not mislead others into thinking it is an official Page, or violate someone's rights. If your Page is not the official Page of a brand, entity (place or organization) or public figure, you must:
i. not speak in the voice of, or post content as though it was coming from, the authorized representative of the Page’s subject matter; and
ii. make clear that the Page is not the official Page of the brand, entity (place or organization) or public figure.


I don't think you made that page. Well perhaps you did, but it got merged at some point with the official page which had a lot of likes at that point. It's not like you took the page from 0 to 100 000 likes. I don't remember exactly how many likes it had, but it had a lot. Your work on XWIS was appreciated (by me at least) and your work on CnCNet is appreciated as well, but I was just pointing out some legal issues that you need to take into account.

Edited by dsector, 20 March 2015 - 07:01 PM.


#90 NeoGrant

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:41 PM

What do you mean by "too"? You didn't create the RA2 one. Besides, anyone can create a Facebook page for anything. That doesn't mean they're allowed to ;) You'd have to contact EA Games if you're going to advertise CnCNet on that page. You don't represent the brand C&C or Red Alert in any way. Those names are trademarked.

Err yes I did. Along with the others. Can you not spot the consistency in the naming?

 

https://www.facebook.com/CNCTiberianSun

https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2

https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2YurisRevenge

 

BTW the RA2 page has always said it does not represent EA Games or Westwood studios. The "Official" tag that seems to have appeared on the page was added after I was demoted from these pages, so one of the many admins must have approved a status for that to appear. 

 

Just to add, XWIS acquired this page off me ( https://www.facebook.com/RedAlert2Online) somewhere in the entire mass demotion. This page was solely targeted at the google organic search term. You guys haven't posted since December, and haven't made use of it correctly whatsoever. 



#91 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:58 PM

Err yes I did. Along with the others. Can you not spot the consistency in the naming?
 
https://www.facebook.com/CNCTiberianSun
https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2
https://www.facebook.com/CNCRedAlert2YurisRevenge
 
BTW the RA2 page has always said it does not represent EA Games or Westwood studios. The "Official" tag that seems to have appeared on the page was added after I was demoted from these pages, so one of the many admins must have approved a status for that to appear. 
 
Just to add, XWIS acquired this page off me ( https://www.facebook.com/RedAlert2Online) somewhere in the entire mass demotion. This page was solely targeted at the google organic search term. You guys haven't posted since December, and haven't made use of it correctly whatsoever.

I added to the end of my previous post some more info.

The names don't mean anything. You can change the name of a Facebook page to whatever you want so the consistency is irrelevant. Multiple RA2 pages merged together several years ago and I specifically remember you getting admin access to the main page which had tens of thousands of likes at that time.

Regarding the XWIS page, I'm in no way affiliated or part of the XWIS team so don't lump me in and say "you guys". The title of "XWIS Buddies" under my name was simply given because I gave away around $1500 of prizes in a few tournaments I organized.

In any case, it's silly to continue the discussion since I don't mean harm for neither CnCNet nor XWIS. I was simply implying that the two should work together to find a fully legal way of making this work (even if it means contacting EA Games and either making the game F2P already or getting approval from them to do your own thing). As things currently stand, CnCNet might face some legal charges if it gets quite big.


Edited by dsector, 20 March 2015 - 07:03 PM.


#92 Mikoz

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 07:09 PM

 The OFFICIAL Facebook page for RA2 should not be used to advertise some new illegal server but rather to support the official server that's still around.

 

Man, you are so absolutely right there.

It should show the XWIS rankings ( Since its still officiall!!!!) Streamvideos of all the pro's who are still active so people can actually see what this is about and at what level it is played on,  ingame tuturials for new players and a easy guide how to join our server.

This is the way to promote a oldskool game which is still played 15 years after its release, not by posting pictures of sketchy drones and asking ppl to draw there own kirov :/

 

whatever the outcome is between xwis vs cncnet, right now the official red alert 2 facebook page should promote our xwis online play.

Im incredibly sad by this missed chance.


Edited by Mikoz, 20 March 2015 - 07:15 PM.


#93 rumblesom

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 07:18 PM

whatever produces better activity



#94 Seke

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 08:43 PM

In any case, it's silly to continue the discussion since I don't mean harm for neither CnCNet nor XWIS. I was simply implying that the two should work together to find a fully legal way of making this work (even if it means contacting EA Games and either making the game F2P already or getting approval from them to do your own thing). As things currently stand, CnCNet might face some legal charges if it gets quite big.

 

As a player and a person very much involved with the ra2 community (wherever it might be). It's clear that problems need to be addressed. Some have, some have not. The biggest issue today is the lack of information/communication--the segregation between individual communities for a variety of CNC games. The main goal of CNCnet is clearly to unite these communities, however, dsector brings up the very important notion that the legalities of this need to be made sure they are correct right now, as I agree with dsector when he says "cncnet might face some legal charges if it gets quite big".

 

Also, seriously, find some common ground and work together. All I want to see is a united community. 



#95 MrFrodo

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 09:43 PM

What legality? Hes not giving game download for free, he just sayin you have the  game?, try this online service which imho btw is superior.(Also they told people to buy games from origin store)

 

I think Seb(ItsMeSeb) was the original poster on XWIS forums last year when CNCnet came with a complete revamped client, it listed the endless possibilities there platform provided, peeps tried it and loved it.  And now they are doing this with other games also. No body after that advertised it, few topics were made here in TS forum at the time were all locked or deleted. Either way people just post here bcoz they know this community so long and they want their friends/other players to know of alternatives. (I think Olafs stance on this so called advertising is more accommodating now than it was 16 months ago and that's why these discussions are still open). And also it re engergized ts community I think, because we were always told source code is like some hidden treasure. No plans were there for ts future regarding windows 8 and the regular everyday game errors and so Cncnet just made the dev environment so open ended it did wonders for the game. Now community knows that this game might actually be still be played in coming future with even better activity. With XWIS man, the game activity was just dwindling.(No blame game here just stating the build up and facts) its a WIN for the community!

 

And dsector man I think Olaf or anyone else doesn't need help in defending themselves, we have already discussed and acknowledged the point "of the hard work Olaf's put in over the years in ST and XWIS and still running it" Regarding the merger, its only the admin staff at both websites can actually do sth about it. We as players just threw in some ideas with end result having a huge community all together and tryin out diff cnc classics, giving an activity boost to all those classics. Thanks, Obama.

 

whatever produces better activity

 

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/179634-new-server/?p=1555482


Edited by MrFrodo, 21 March 2015 - 03:17 AM.


#96 FReQuEnZy

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 10:00 PM

Here's how I define an illegal server:
- manufacturer (EA Games) does not make any money since anyone can play with a pirated copy
- game files have been altered with (XWIS did this as well but at least EA knows about XWIS and it's the official server for the game which still brings EA some money)
- no cd key validation required. Most RA2 / Yuri's fans in the world have an illegal copy of the game. You're basically allowing all of them to play while pretending it's the official server.

 

  • Manufacturers don't make money from pirated games. (full stop) Be they with unofficial multiplayer or without.
  • CnCNet is just a service that provides multiplayer.

It would be like if valve made a law suit against open counterstrike servers which there are a lot of.

People who own the game (no matter which way they acquired it), can play on those servers.

CnCNet doesn't break any copyrights or cause any legal issues due to operating in the same manner.

 

EA Games doesn't make money when Olaf sells XWIS Accounts.

Which I guess makes XWIS illegal too, in your perspective.

 

 

  • Most RA2/YR fans bought the game when it was released and it sold over 500K copies.

I've bought it multiple times, due to my CD's literally being cracked in half due to EA's crappy CD boxes.

CnCNet does NOT pretend to be the official server IN ANY WAY.

If you think otherwise you should head over to their website and practice some reading comprehension.

 

A server doesn't require CD key validation to provide online service, if it's unofficial.

Running official servers requires money, which the game makers gain from purchases of their product.

Making an unofficial server is not illegal, copying a game through pirate channels is.

 

 

Keep in mind that there are other services out there.

Such as GR, QQ Battlezone, Tunggle, Hamachi.. etc

They all function in a similar manner to CnCNet, so maybe you should complain about all of them, because some of them are much more active than XWIS and CnCnet both put together.

If CnCNet would be elegible in any way to face legal action then any of those network do as well. We all know QQ Battle has been around for years along with it's highest population of +22K players for Ra2 alone. Yet EA hasn't blinked an eye.

 

So instead of talking nonsense, you should do more research on your accusations.


Edited by FReQuEnZy, 20 March 2015 - 10:07 PM.


#97 dsector

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 10:16 PM

What legality? Hes not giving game download for free, he just sayin you have the  game?, try this online service which imho btw is superior.(Also they told people to buy games from origin store)

 

And dsector man I think Olaf or anyone else doesn't need help in defending themselves, we have already discussed and acknowledged the point "of the hard work Olaf's put in over the years in ST and XWIS and still running it" Regarding the merger, its only the admin staff at both websites can actually do sth about it. We as players just threw in some ideas with end result having a huge community all together and tryin out diff cnc classics, giving an activity boost to all those classics.

I already mentioned what legality. Where did you see me defending Olaf or XWIS for that matter?

 

 

It would be like if valve made a [. . . ]

 

I know all too well that having a discussion with you is a huge waste of time so I'll keep it short. I already said that XWIS is just as illegal if Olaf keeps all the money he gets when selling game accounts. I guess you're the one with a reading comprehension problem. You clearly didn't read what I said since most of my concerns were related to how the main Facebook page is being used. Also, the majority of private servers out there are indeed illegal. It's just that some companies don't bother shutting them down that's all. If the game is not F2P nor open source, you are not entitled to make it F2P with your own private server so I guess you're the one who needs to do more research and stop talking nonsense (like usual) ;)


Edited by dsector, 20 March 2015 - 10:46 PM.


#98 FReQuEnZy

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 01:04 AM

I'll keep it short too.

I skipped most of your posts because you're just moaning without any point.

So please stop your pointless moaning. It's not going to change anything.

 

The end result is simple.

XWIS Staff with good ideas and motivation went to cncnet, with those benefits cncnet grew.

While XWIS was left stagnant and dead in the water, because there's no captain at the wheel.

 

Best end result is the remaining XWIS staff bringing their experience and motivation to CnCNet.

Which would bring patched game clients with no cheating, less cheat reports, support threads, less complaining, etc...

It would bring progress, that some have been waiting for years.



#99 AMadKirov

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 02:45 AM

Olaf may just change the Download post for people who owns a legal serial for RA2/Yuris and let others do their thing. it wont be hard since he already knows PHP and CnCNet is not giving a free copy like other networks that i know.

 

 

And actually if you take a look at the Game List of GR there are a lot of games still holded by EA and they dont do anything about it.  So whats the point of argue about something that EA dont care about?

 

Most of this conversation i find it stupid and i dont think CnCNet should merge with any network since they are the ones paying for their own server bills, its easy just to look from outside and say whats right and whats wrong.



#100 SovForce1

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 07:42 AM

to be honest who cares xwis never really supported yuri finally someone is and i'am thankful for that. will continue playing on cncnet and gr but god damn it miss quick matchs :D




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