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Ra2 : Book of Knowledge


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#51 Seke

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

It's a lot harder to get planes in A v A ..........You guys are sooooooooo wrong.



#52 JoKuJaK

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:14 PM

thats y u get some ifv cus they good to split with n good to defend planes with n good when u build 3 -4-5 war b4 tech .. cus u n00b!

 

hehe its soviet allied style biatchitches


just cus u pressure n can win by split dont mean ya dont gota defendz!

 

i played allies n pisc cried out loud n00b sov allied joku! xD he was obs ofcourse.. to n00b to play gg lol^^


often wonder how i could play so much ra2 over yuri just because of server activity but i reckon its a dam fun game ye love this shit man dfuq ;/


Edited by JoKuJaK, 25 February 2014 - 10:10 PM.


#53 JoKuJaK

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:27 AM

i b00m ra2 like chess g


mid school not old... badabing bada kaboomboomboomboooooom

 

lol



#54 AaSoVGoD

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:49 PM

i b00m ra2 like chess g


mid school not old... badabing bada kaboomboomboomboooooom

 

lol

 

Sounds like Leeloo from the 5th element



#55 Drasten

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:11 PM

It's a lot harder to get planes in A v A ..........You guys are sooooooooo wrong.

 

Normally your right. But i was refering to late game where both players start spamming out prism-tanks. At this point harriers becomes extremly usefull since they 1 shoot the prism-tanks.



#56 W0nNaPl4y

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

Such as? Remember you say "maps" and that is plural.

 

Pinch Point

Official Tournament Map A (as korea, not in every situation)

 

edit: 

 

@ Joku,

 

Yes Spies are KEY to lategame AvS or AvA. 

On maps like heartland, cold war, heck etc it just gives you the edge which wins you games.

Spying the warfactory is probably one of the most important things to do once you have a 2-3 warfactory production going.

 

 

Years back I have written a start of an Allied guide. This is probably outdated nowadays and since I quit the study where I was writing this for, it will probably never finish. So I might aswell post it here . An expert Allied Strategy Guide which never got to see the day of light, nor did it come close to finishing : 

 

 

 

Command and Conquer 
Red Alert 2 
Expert Allieds Strategy Guide



I've devided the maps where Soviet are generally favored into 2 subcategories;
USA sovmaps ans Korea Sovmaps.

On the USA sovmaps America has more chance of winning than Korea and vice versa.
(All these maps are Soviet favored however)


USA sovmaps
Pinch Point
DC
Defqon 6

Korea sovmaps
Urban Rush
Alamo
Offi A
Offi B
Stormy

Problem maps (Sovmaps)
Defqon6 it was almost autoloss for me.
Korea: I tried and get 1 eagle +1 rockie and do as much damage while I can, but its really really hard. You’ll need lots of fodder aswell to beat an rhino army. 
To be honest, I haven’t played Defqon much since it was introduced into QM around the time I stopped playing much. 
America: As an usa player you’ve got a slight chance. But you need a “lucky” paradrop for that. A lot of players don’t scout far around their base on this map, so don’t place your paradrop directly behind the warfac, but place it in a corner. He will see the para walking from the shadow, but then it is too late. However if u place the paradrop next to the warfac, he’ll have time to place dogs before your paradrop even lands.

DC Uprising 
Korea: it really depends on what spot u are. when you're BR i usually did a all out rush with 1-2eagles, sell mcv after only 2refs (pp,bar,ref,war,afc,ref,sell mcv ->rockie+eagle).
It gets really different when you have got another spot. Won’t go over all spots since every matchup is different again (TLvsTR is different than TL vs BR etc.). Overall most games don’t last long here and u can expect your enemy going 0 miners. Exception to this rule is TR vs BL where some ppl go 1 miner. If you see that go 1 miner aswell (Don’t go 2), to keep up.
As korea its very hard to get eagles up without selling mcv. So I always sell my mcv after I made afc.
on TL I build to ore, after warf, immediately move mcv to gems , deploy, ref,afc SELL mcv. Move both miners to gems and macro them so you won’t go low money. In some situations you may want a pillbox in the gemfield (vs terror drones and/or fodder).
Again its really important to use your eagles all the time. I also place my afc near the gemfield, but behind the ref and fight field so that my eagles don’t need to move far to reload. As you can imagine this also brings risk with it, since he’ll try and go around your tanks to quickly kill of afc. But if you already killed some tanks with your eagle/eagles you should slightly outtank him and you’ve got the gems. 
If the sov player comes to close to your miner, move them to your first refinery at TL. (So don’t sell it at the beginning!).
America players have a little advantage here to Korea, since you got the paradrop and maybe even 2 paradrops. Best thing to do when u have 2 paradrops is to Best thing to do when u have 2 paradrops is to NOT place both of them in the same place. It’s likely your opponent has to separate little bases so try and split your paradrops while pressuring with your grizzly +fodder and rockies.
Make about 4 rockies and try to assist one of your paradrops with them. If you attack a ref or a warf with this combo you’re very likely to succeed, since there shouldn’t be much units around. Getting ground and air combo on it is very hard to counter in time. It’s all about timing and speed.

Pinch Point
Korea: is really tough because you won't have enough money for resources, try and check what ur opponent is doing. If your opponent doesn’t move to mid, I always try to get mid. (When getting pressured its better to deploy MCV in middle then at gems, make 1-2 pillboxes and a 2nd barracks there.)*
*NOTE: You won’t have an AFC yet, and in some cases you won’t have enough money/time for it, in that case it may be better to sell mcv to make some fodder and stay alive, unless the sov player falls back, in that case you can try and make an afc.

If he moved to mid, try moving to mid aswell to the other gem patch after 2nd ref (1miner from warf). You'll still be ahead since u now got 2 bases and he has only 1 (+maybe a reactor at home) plus your 2nd refinery is only seconds after he places his warfac. In this case you have tanks out earlier than him AND you have more economy. Once u got the gems, make eagles as much as u can.(2-3, whilst maintain STEADY grizzly producing, if your eco runs low, cancel the eagle!!) Rockies are too expensive here, try to avoid them. 1 rockie ofcourse is very good so he needs flak always. (and u pick those off with eagles, or kill his tanks with eagles while flak is chasing rockie). In most cases you should however go for the Rhino’s. Don’t be fooled by the money boost you get from the gems. It’s only a small gempatch so you need to move your mcv soon to new ore. (I prefer putting my afc at the gempatch since its high, closed off and close to the enemy.

America: America can be played exactly the same as korea on this map except that u may want an afc before you move your mcv to the middle. America does better here because of the low income.
This is also one of the few maps where I use almost all my paradrops in the middle instead of sneaking in a base. If you can secure the middle this way, your chances of winning the match increase greatly. Since you´ll get to pick up both gem patches if the game lasts long enough. Now is also the time to start pumping rockies somewhere where he hopefully can´t see it. When fighting vs deso´s and/or desobombs (full loaded flacktracks) you should have 2 harriers to pick them off. (its better to target 2 flack tracks with 2 harriers and then put the rockies in for the kill, then to kill 1 flacktrack with 2 harriers and then the other flack track with rockies. Altough some micro is required for this).
Some players go afc before warfac here and it can be very strong, but it’s very risky. If you like to do this then try to make sure to have some quick fodder and pressuring v hard so u can sneak in a paradrop, or use the paradrop as main fodder.
Even in some cases you can drop the para just behind his tanks in order to ‘confuse’ the rhino’s. (practically surrounding them with ur grizz+dog and on the otherside your paradrop). This tactic however can backfire on u if the timing isn’t right. In that case he kills ur gi’s instantly.

The korea sovmaps:
On these maps Korea is really underrated although mostly still Sov favored. However when u play Korea very well, you will be able to beat Sovs on these maps. (Only if u play better than your opponent)
Urban Rush is a typical map where Korea can be really strong.
I usually sell my mcv at 3 miners (1 from warf unless u think he's rushing).
Once u got 3 miners u can start making eagles 1 by 1. In time you'll have 4 eagles.
Really important is to keep the eagles moving ALWAYS. keep killing rhino's and flak. And if he has too much flak at his tanks, kill his power and/or barracks. If u have a bit of control in mid, u can go with an IFV shoot his warf 2-3 times with it, then attack warf with 4 eagles. It will kill the warfac and most of the times people already sold their mcv's. NOTE: If this works, make sure u make alot of dogs/gi's right from that moment, because he will go mass fodder and try and push through. If u go lots of gi's u can keep him off, while u keep killing his tanks again with your eagles. Rocketeers are really unnessecary here. Maybe 1 at start.

Alamo
Alamo is a map where an USA player is absolutely chanceless(unless there is a big skill gap), whilst Korea players have a decent shot of winning.
Korea:This really depends on position but once again Eagles are very very important. If you are bottom left, head for the gems (i.e. put 1st miner on gems), Once u done this keep building to the middle.
From here on you have 2 options depending on your opponent;
1. pp,bar,ref,warf, warf,ref, ref or afc (I mostly chose AFC first, but then you need to macro your 
miners.
2. Pp,bar,ref,warf,afc,ref,ref. 
You can always do your own thing but important is that you put your 3rd ref at the ore @ your derrick (gems will run out).
Depending on whether u decided to go 2 warfs or fast AFC, you need to make eagles quickly when u got AFC (as korea you can ALWAYS make your afc later then u would do using America. This is important because as korea u need a little more eco than u need while playing America.
Try and get 4 eagles, (teaming them in either singles or doubles) and pick off tanks every chance u get.

On Alamo most players have their warfac Bottom right and so they have 2 separate bases. If you keep moving with your grizlly, he will need to move with his rhino’s. If he does you can pick of tanks in the middle because he wont have canons there. If he tries to avoid your eagles by going back ( down to warfac again), you can simply pick off 1 miner with grizzly and fall back. Its very important that you DO NOT PUSH THROUGH. Because of the smallness of the map and the activity, grizzly will get raped in battle. 
Now you are harassing him and making him crazy and killing his tanks piece by piece. To make sure you can outtank him you need to have a 2nd warf. (depending on when his 2nd warf came up).
On Alamo you will never need a 3rd warfac as allies. If your opponent has 3-4 warfacs, simply get 2 afc’s. (2 warfacs + 2 afc’s vs 3-4 warfacs). If you can control your eagles well, you can control this map. 
Still Alamo is a really hard map for allies, but most of the games that I won here, I had more than one elite or veteran eagles. In long games on this map, you may even want to make a battle lab and spy one of his warfacs. (You should have +- 6-8 eagles by now). If you spied your opponent, he will need to attack YOU instead the other way around. If he doesn’t attack u, u spam veteran grizlly, If he does attack you, you can once again fall back a bit and keep using your eagles. (He’s away from his canons now, if it’s a hard push, don’t target his flak track but try to kill 2-4 rhino’s). 


You should be in the advantage here since you have the garrisons and the possibility to put pillboxes as fodder. 
If your opponent has deso, kill them with your eagles if they come and make some 5-6 rockies to pester him. With these 5-6 rockies you can also surprise attack him. 
Meaning: attack his mcv with ur 5-6 rockies for a few seconds, then come in with 5 eagles.
If he doesn’t see u – target mcv. (Always try and target at the last moment so you won’t waste your shots.
If he see’s u – make it seem as if you’re going for mcv (he’ll redeploy) and instead kill a warfac or refinery (or any other close nearby building)
Do the same as above for Top Right, only difference is that u don’t take the games but the extra derrick (derricks on this map are better than on other maps). PP,Bar,ref,warf,warf,ref,afc is the best BO for Top Right as Korea (imo). If you’re USA: pp,bar,ref,warf,warf/afc(choose order),ref.
I usually do this from my barracks : Dog,GI,Engi,Dog,Dog,Gi,Engi,4-5 GI’s. Waypoint all of those down to the derrick. (2nd engi is for the derrick at your base). Yes, its very different than usual, but it’s a garrison map and you really need that bottom derrick. If you don’t get the derrick, good luck.

Edited by W0nNaPl4y, 06 March 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#57 fir3w0rx

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

What makes a map a sovmap or an alliedmap? Is there a Yuri map?

#58 W0nNaPl4y

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:16 PM

What makes a map a sovmap or an alliedmap? Is there a Yuri map?

 

It's a map where the other team is favored by atleast 10%,. 

 

Where a map as Heartland is about 50/50 (or 55/45), makes it a neutral map. 

It's an undeniable fact that the game is imbalanced which makes you factor for the unlucky maps.

Where Alaskan Oil Spill was a great alliedmap and Alamo a great sovietmap, only alaskan got filtered out.

The main reason that 95% of the top players were/are Soviets is because they are stronger on most of the mappool. I don't know how the map distribution is now, but certain map designs just favor allieds over soviets, and the other way around.

Unfortunately sovs are a bit overpowerd in the early game, which balances out most of the alliedmaps for the soviets, because they can rush very hard.



#59 Crisis

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:44 PM

What makes a map a sovmap or an alliedmap? Is there a Yuri map?

Almost all maps are yuri maps :p Basically the only maps that Yuri isn't good on are the really huge maps, and even then they're still on par if super weapons are on. 



#60 ExpaNd

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:45 PM

Almost all maps are yuri maps :p Basically the only maps that Yuri isn't good on are the really huge maps, and even then they're still on par if super weapons are on.


Golden state freeway, stands as the standard for a soviet map

#61 fir3w0rx

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:49 AM

It's a map where the other team is favored by atleast 10%,. 
 
Where a map as Heartland is about 50/50 (or 55/45), makes it a neutral map. 
It's an undeniable fact that the game is imbalanced which makes you factor for the unlucky maps.
Where Alaskan Oil Spill was a great alliedmap and Alamo a great sovietmap, only alaskan got filtered out.
The main reason that 95% of the top players were/are Soviets is because they are stronger on most of the mappool. I don't know how the map distribution is now, but certain map designs just favor allieds over soviets, and the other way around.
Unfortunately sovs are a bit overpowerd in the early game, which balances out most of the alliedmaps for the soviets, because they can rush very hard.

 

Almost all maps are yuri maps :p Basically the only maps that Yuri isn't good on are the really huge maps, and even then they're still on par if super weapons are on.

 

Golden state freeway, stands as the standard for a soviet map

 
Ok, but what specifically makes those maps sov/allied/yuri maps? I know that cliffs are good for rockies and planes for obvious reasons, and grizzlies can use them to run around your base in circles while the rhinos and flak traks hopelessly try to catch them. Naval maps favour air units. But I'm sure there is more to it than that. As for sovmaps, I have no idea what specific map-features would make a map a sovmap.


Edited by fir3w0rx, 07 March 2014 - 04:03 PM.


#62 Crisis

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:08 AM

In general, maps that have some of the following are usually very good for yuri (if supers are on, it can change a lot without supers)

Small-Medium sized maps 

Water (Hammer and sickle, it's doable to win, but yuri's naval is very strong early game because the boomer can be built with just a radar and is better than air craft carriers)

Small choke points (Dustbowl, you're kind of forced to attack in a line and yuri can generally setup bunkers and just auto mag your stuff)

Cliffs (Tour of Egypt, Dry Heat, mags can kill tanks or miners by dropping them on the cliffs)

Limited resources (Hidden Valley with supers on, yuri can just camp and then have infinite money)

 

These are just examples and not necessarily a rule because it depends on the other player you're playing and how good they are, I mean I personally love playing avy on Hidden Valley even though it's a small map, with small choke points, cliffs, and limited resources. 

 

Larger maps are normally good for allies because it allows for splitting and gives you more of an opportunity to bring the game to the later stages where you have a better chance. Examples would be CS, Heck, etc. Small choke points also help allies if they're on bigger maps because it can let you camp and tech up easier (e.g. May Day).

 

Smaller maps are where sovs tend to dominate strictly because sov early game just decimates allies (it's definitely not impossible to win, but allies have to work a lot harder early game vs sovs). Example maps like this would be Blood Feud, Dune Patrol, Dry Heat. 

 

There's obviously other factors that come into play, but I think those are the main deciders. 



#63 FReQuEnZy

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:06 PM

Normally your right. But i was refering to late game where both players start spamming out prism-tanks. At this point harriers becomes extremly usefull since they 1 shoot the prism-tanks.

 

Say you have 4 harriers and your opponent doesn't.

  • You can kill 4 prisms every once in a while.
  • You can kill some ifvs to let your rocketeers kill some prisms.
  • You can kill their battle lab.
  • You can kill their power.
  • You can kill their afc.
  • You can kill their barracks.
  • You can press esc and click quit.

 

 

The main reason that 95% of the top players were/are Soviets is because they are stronger on most of the mappool. I don't know how the map distribution is now, but certain map designs just favor allieds over soviets, and the other way around.

 

As far as I see it the balance was based on community feedback, so due to all the soviet players crying out loud the map pool is mostly full of soviet maps.

A even ground approach was suggested, but according to some geniuses in charge that take the fun out of QM...



#64 ExpaNd

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:51 PM

I write this as I'm waiting for qms


A Ra2 match has two main phases in the game; Macro and Micr0.

These are the focal points of your attention.

Macro and Micro can be compared to a boxers fight in such a way as, upperbody work (punches blocking etc..) and Footwork.


So Macro=footwork and Micr0=upperb0dy work.


Micro: Unit Control, Tank Control, splits, waypoints,ctrl+shift,Hotkeys, and almost anything else physically away from your base not mentioned here.


Macro:Build Order,Miner Control, Hotkeys, Build speed(Knowing what to build or understanding you need to build atleast something even if you are undecided you make a decision),

1)Micr0 (anyone who wishes to include information in this section, feel free to post useful information on this topic.)


I give up2v2ffg time

#65 zbilbo

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:23 PM

Im not sure I understand even what you are talking about longer. But about 8-10 years ago, I guess all of you would have gotten your ass kicked very much...

 

To bad I cant get to install the RA2 on my win8, and don't bother to actually try more than I have ;-) (EDIT: I did try once more and I got it running actually! Don't know yet if it will play online, since nobody there but still ...)

 

(Ok, I would have gotten my ass pretty much kicked today since I haven't played in about 7-8 years and do not have the play in my fingers anymore)

 

If there are any old timers out there, Im still alive ;-)


Edited by zbilbo, 10 March 2014 - 05:02 PM.


#66 ExpaNd

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 04:57 PM

Im not sure I understand even what you are talking about longer. But about 8-10 years ago, I guess all of you would have gotten your ass kicked very much...

To bad I cant get to install the RA2 on my win8, and don't bother to actually try more than I have ;-)

(Ok, I would have gotten my ass pretty much kicked today since I haven't played in about 7-8 years and do not have the play in my fingers anymore)

If there are any old timers out there, Im still alive ;-)

8yrs ago I was handing out the asskickings buddy, on Yuris revenge tho, ra2was like a side project bcuz it's not as fun (to me)

#67 Shauny

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:25 PM

lol :D



#68 ImNewButOld

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 05:50 PM

Lmao

#69 AlliedPlayer

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 06:50 PM

Any games tonight peoples?

#70 Seke

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

Im not sure I understand even what you are talking about longer. But about 8-10 years ago, I guess all of you would have gotten your ass kicked very much...

 

There is no way.... If I came back and played people 10 years ago I would dominate everyone....



#71 ExpaNd

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

There is no way.... If I came back and played people 10 years ago I would dominate everyone....

Lolno

Edit:well not on yr atleast, and I'm pretty sure ra2 was the same way,

Edited by ExpaNd, 10 March 2014 - 08:53 PM.


#72 Seke

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:52 PM

Players now are way better than they use to be...



#73 ExpaNd

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:56 PM

Players now are way better than they use to be...

Lol tomi comes back and still Is at the top of the ladder and he's a rust bucket of domination.

Players at this specific moment in time, can not be as good as players used to be, because there aren't enough games to build your micro to that nxt lvl.

And hate to say it, but you were never at a high level when you played years ago 04-07 or you would not be saying that. Sorry

Edit:not to mention top older players went on to be top players in other games too...

Like ir0nclad,leownzall,Jeff (technique) even tho he cheated, and others... Went on to win cash prizes, rank 1 and other stuff in other games As Well as ra2/yr.

That's a big claim your making, when you've never even played/heard of these guys

Edited by ExpaNd, 11 March 2014 - 12:00 AM.


#74 Seke

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:49 AM

Lol tomi comes back and still Is at the top of the ladder and he's a rust bucket of domination.

Players at this specific moment in time, can not be as good as players used to be, because there aren't enough games to build your micro to that nxt lvl.

And hate to say it, but you were never at a high level when you played years ago 04-07 or you would not be saying that. Sorry

Edit:not to mention top older players went on to be top players in other games too...

Like ir0nclad,leownzall,Jeff (technique) even tho he cheated, and others... Went on to win cash prizes, rank 1 and other stuff in other games As Well as ra2/yr.

That's a big claim your making, when you've never even played/heard of these guys

 

I base it off the fact that many of the good players state that they are way better now than they were in 02-03.

 

At the very least, I would be on par with any of these players...



#75 ExpaNd

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  • XWIS Name: ExpaNd

Posted 11 March 2014 - 01:05 AM

I base it off the fact that many of the good players state that they are way better now than they were in 02-03.

At the very least, I would be on par with any of these players...

Of the new good players yeah, remember Marko was once known as a 3fac rush no0b(I believe i've seen on the forum). Not everyone starts off super Pr0
06had good players for sure
On a side note: does anybody feel like organizing the information from the replies, into the actual topic? If not I'll get around to it eventually

Edited by ExpaNd, 11 March 2014 - 01:06 AM.



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