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#26 dsector

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:58 PM

This is what all the noobs try to do and they all suck at it. Its better to just get a miner and get an aegis early + destroyers and jus kill all their derricks. Its definitely not very good on depth charge. I don't think its horrible on Alaskan a v a, but a v s its better to go wf first.

So you start getting oils after war --> naval yard --> aegis --> transporter? That's 3 minutes into the game. I would just kill the oils on your side in the meantime.

 

By the time you build aegis, transporter and destroyers I will already have a battle lab up.

 

Not to mention I can harass you with rookies right from the start and force you to waste money on anti air (patriot missal since your war wouldn't be ready or you would be building a miner) . An early para will also be useful since your base would lack defense. AFC before war has always worked better for me on those two maps.



#27 Seke

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:40 AM

Well on some maps like south Pacific sometimes I go afc before war then 0 miners and attack from the start...and Dmz tr pretty much the same thing, for some examples. But little stuff like that is based on if you feel like playing those kinds of micr0 games. Lol I try not to givenSpecific build orders because people eventually keep using same ones and it gets boring but yeah, that's my input anyways

wf better on sp too, just get afc after wf if u want to do air rush


So you start getting oils after war --> naval yard --> aegis --> transporter? That's 3 minutes into the game. I would just kill the oils on your side in the meantime.

 

By the time you build aegis, transporter and destroyers I will already have a battle lab up.

 

Not to mention I can harass you with rookies right from the start and force you to waste money on anti air (patriot missal since your war wouldn't be ready or you would be building a miner) . An early para will also be useful since your base would lack defense. AFC before war has always worked better for me on those two maps

 

Well, you can't kill my transport on depth, on alaskan you could but can get at least 1 derrick first



#28 ExpaNd

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:04 AM

wf better on sp too, just get afc after wf if u want to do air rush


Well, you can't kill my transport on depth, on alaskan you could but can get at least 1 derrick first


But you get very early double para, and not an air rush lol, selling mcv is for noobs

#29 KoninhoPau

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:53 AM

tony u still have coil rank 1 in ur sig where i did everything alone, could u please remove that? it hurts me.



#30 Crisis

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:31 AM

But you get very early double para, and not an air rush lol, selling mcv is for noobs

para sucks on ra2...



#31 ExpaNd

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:09 AM

tony u still have coil rank 1 in ur sig where i did everything alone, could u please remove that? it hurts me.


Lol sure, I'm only on mobile tho don't even see my Sig, although I was in coil, I do remember not playing any games :p

And para sucks in ra2 sure, but when you have one Rockie here, one Rockie there, tanks, and all that other good stuff, sometimes the press gives you enough compensation, it's just another tactic, that's all.

Paras are pretty good vs refineries still!

#32 Drasten

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:45 PM

para sucks on ra2...

 They dont suck. They arent as good as in yr but they are still really usefull. A well placed para can kill a ore refinery or war factory in 4-5 seconds upon landing.Which is a good tactic if you preasure with rockies/tanks at the same time. They can also be used defensivly to put infront of your tanks to give a huge advantage in tankfights. 8 GI;s infront of your tanks/dogs early game when both players doesnt have that many tanks is a huge deal since they can kill the enemies dogs so quickly and then do good dmg to their tanks. You can just alt-gr them so they stay close to eachother and keep em infront of your tanks while moving forward, when the enemy tries to engage just deploy your GI;s asap, together with the dogs they provide exellent fodder and keeps your tanks healthy while they do good dmg aswell. If he goes for deso you can always just retreat abit (desos move slowly) send in rockies or plane depending if he has flak track or not to deal with the deso then just keep pressing forward.

 

GI;s can also be placed on cliffs to gain height advantage and better range+harder to reach for the enemy units. For example on south-pacific you can place your GI;s just ontop of the cliff if the opponent built abit to close to the cliff-edge and just deploy your desos near the cliff-edge and blast his buildings down. GG)

 

Paradrop is extremly versitile, and can do exellent dmg, vs most stuff on the ground + insane damage to structures and they leved up to elite so quickly aswell.

 

- Can always be used defensivly to great effect (especially early game)

 

- Can be used to quickly take out enemy structures for a quick win (good if you can divert his attention with splits)

 

- Can be placed on cliffs to gain map control and to possibly reach some structures due to added range from height advantage)

 

-Due to low cost they get elite really early

 

-Can quickly be placed anywhere, anytime (aslong as you got one ready)

 

 

So dont tell me paras sucks in this game;D


Edited by Drasten, 22 February 2014 - 01:49 PM.


#33 JoKuJaK

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:51 PM

on depth u gota follow the transport.. kill it.. u wont be able to so keep going at it and when the units unload re-focus the aim on the engi's instead of the transport.. always go afc b4 warfs in aVs on depth :o best is to get 3-4 rockies cus they will 1 shot kill engie when u micro good. a good sov will do what is below therefor make sure u dont lose like rockies or to many rockies early on and try and defend and kill or overtake the oils that arent located in the mid

 

when im sov i always get 1-2 dog in transport alongside the engies, put carefully transport unload right next to or into oil and get all engies into 1 oil, then capture it n drop cannon. u will lose 1-2 engie maybe but u will kill rockie in return and have mid, also have mid b4 the allied which is a plus for the soviet but since u drop cannon on middle island allie will send rockie to ur base.. np.. let them shoot some since after making ur first canon u need make another canon for mcv island.. when u done this go MASS sub, else u lose naval battle.. cant lose naval battle because u need kirov vs GAPS and u cant do this with aegisboats runnen around (no sw)

 

 

i actually was pretty good at depth at a certain point in time :) i guess when i qm'd some insted of clan

and my allies was pretty scary too sometime. ive played allies on depth fo'sure. yes u rly needa get this afc b4 warf.. so u can make the soviets go into 1-2 flaks and lose 1/2/3 engies maybe... then once ur allieds is ROLLING, the ONLY thing u needa do 100% is NOT lose naval fight so u have the power over the water. then u cant lose.. even with supers its a tough cooki for sovs


Edited by JoKuJaK, 22 February 2014 - 03:08 PM.


#34 JoKuJaK

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:11 PM

good sov build for depth is

 

power

rax

ref

naval - flak cannon

power

war - flak cannon

techtree along with 1-2 extra navals - mass sub - dont make units from warfac but miners

 

win the naval game n then make army from warf what u need for later game like kirov/v3/some rhino for into transport

 

 

gota be iraqi for this one tho ;)

 

n u get 2 flak cannon so u dont need flak tracks.. so u can make miners and u dont waste time/money on flaks... because if u pump 5 flak because ur stressen.. ur like 15 sec further but u spend 2500 in 15 sec cus flaktracks build so quick^^ and u can make flakboat... they kill all !


Edited by JoKuJaK, 22 February 2014 - 03:14 PM.


#35 Crisis

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

 They dont suck. They arent as good as in yr but they are still really usefull. A well placed para can kill a ore refinery or war factory in 4-5 seconds upon landing.Which is a good tactic if you preasure with rockies/tanks at the same time. They can also be used defensivly to put infront of your tanks to give a huge advantage in tankfights. 8 GI;s infront of your tanks/dogs early game when both players doesnt have that many tanks is a huge deal since they can kill the enemies dogs so quickly and then do good dmg to their tanks. You can just alt-gr them so they stay close to eachother and keep em infront of your tanks while moving forward, when the enemy tries to engage just deploy your GI;s asap, together with the dogs they provide exellent fodder and keeps your tanks healthy while they do good dmg aswell. If he goes for deso you can always just retreat abit (desos move slowly) send in rockies or plane depending if he has flak track or not to deal with the deso then just keep pressing forward.

 

GI;s can also be placed on cliffs to gain height advantage and better range+harder to reach for the enemy units. For example on south-pacific you can place your GI;s just ontop of the cliff if the opponent built abit to close to the cliff-edge and just deploy your desos near the cliff-edge and blast his buildings down. GG)

 

Paradrop is extremly versitile, and can do exellent dmg, vs most stuff on the ground + insane damage to structures and they leved up to elite so quickly aswell.

 

- Can always be used defensivly to great effect (especially early game)

 

- Can be used to quickly take out enemy structures for a quick win (good if you can divert his attention with splits)

 

- Can be placed on cliffs to gain map control and to possibly reach some structures due to added range from height advantage)

 

-Due to low cost they get elite really early

 

-Can quickly be placed anywhere, anytime (aslong as you got one ready)

 

 

So dont tell me paras sucks in this game;D

Let me rephrase, paras aren't good enough on ra2 to rush AFC before war. Both you and expand say pressure with tanks rockies and para, but if you go AFC first you won't have tanks to pressure with. If I'm going to rush AFC on ra2 I'll do it immediately after war, and that'd usually only be on gem maps with double para, it's just too risky to go AFC first against a good sov player.


Edited by Crisis, 22 February 2014 - 03:18 PM.


#36 JoKuJaK

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:17 PM

alaskan oil spill = bad.


Let me rephrase, paras aren't good enough on ra2 to rush AFC before war. Both you and expand say pressure with tanks rockies and para, but if you go AFC first you won't have tanks to pressure with

yes

 

on yr people can afc b4 war, not only because para is stronger but also because rhino build slower on yr and there are GGI.


Edited by JoKuJaK, 22 February 2014 - 03:18 PM.


#37 ExpaNd

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

Let me rephrase, paras aren't good enough on ra2 to rush AFC before war. Both you and expand say pressure with tanks rockies and para, but if you go AFC first you won't have tanks to pressure with. If I'm going to rush AFC on ra2 I'll do it immediately after war, and that'd usually only be on gem maps with double para, it's just too risky to go AFC first against a good sov player.


Allied tanks build quicker, 2 Rockies means atleast a flak track(slowing his tanks down) and you can still press him, and if he goes miner then there are definitely no problems pressing,

It's not like I'd go afc first every game, but i have won going afc first vs some pretty good players.

Drasten:I'm gonna copy and past that into "Thoughts on Paradrops" section lol.

And good input JokuJak,

#38 JoKuJaK

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

on ra2 grizz/rhino build-ratio''s are pretty cool.. much different to yuri.

 

on ra2 you can go 5 warf with allies no tech and still come close to win. u can actually win if the soviets miss a expensive split like a 10 grizz, or a paradrop.. or 10 rockie for a good 10-15 sec...

 

 rhino-dog > grizz-dog. so you shouldnt be able to win without a winning split... therefor dont go 6th war but go tech and get spy and get veteran grizz.. the trick in this one is that u got 5 warf.. he too... so pick a warf..

 

problem with this spy trick is tht u got like 80 standard grizz.. then u spy n then u mke like 20 - 30 grizz n most maps are outa money ;) but it works cus its still 20-30 vet grizz ... what u gotta do with them is dont lose them.. if u lose grizz lose ur noobs grizz.. micro the veterns  a bit.. get elites.. they great for extra split power/speed and excellent for deso.

And it also work cus u got chrono miner.. so if ur spy works in his warf u can sell mcv and battle lab.. chrono miner can mine anywhere ^^

 

thats how i played allies

 

unless small map.. 2-3 miner sell mcv.. good fun xD (what u gotta do with this is do not gamble with paradrop, always either use them for split or drop them at ur army (first/2nd paradrop) )


 

 

martin refreshed my memory yesterday i remember how i played allies again xD


Edited by JoKuJaK, 22 February 2014 - 04:02 PM.


#39 ExpaNd

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:28 PM

on ra2 grizz/rhino build-ratio''s are pretty cool.. much different to yuri.

on ra2 you can go 5 warf with allies no tech and still come close to win. u can actually win if the soviets miss a expensive split like a 10 grizz, or a paradrop.. or 10 rockie for a good 10-15 sec...

rhino-dog > grizz-dog. so you shouldnt be able to win without a winning split... therefor dont go 6th war but go tech and get spy and get veteran grizz.. the trick in this one is that u got 5 warf.. he too... so pick a warf..

problem with this spy trick is tht u got like 80 standard grizz.. then u spy n then u mke like 20 - 30 grizz n most maps are outa money ;) but it works cus its still 20-30 vet grizz ... what u gotta do with them is dont lose them.. if u lose grizz lose ur noobs grizz.. micro the veterns a bit.. get elites.. they great for extra split power/speed and excellent for deso.
And it also work cus u got chrono miner.. so if ur spy works in his warf u can sell mcv and battle lab.. chrono miner can mine anywhere ^^

thats how i played allies

unless small map.. 2-3 miner sell mcv.. good fun xD (what u gotta do with this is do not gamble with paradrop, always either use them for split or drop them at ur army (first/2nd paradrop) )



martin refreshed my memory yesterday i remember how i played allies again xD


Yeah I remember coming to ra2from yr and trying not to win with tech(to transition easier) and 6-8 allied warfacs are pretty scary vs a sov who doesnt have the same amount of facs.

#40 JoKuJaK

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:03 PM

u just needa make sure u dont fall 1 sec behind on warfac and max 5 and make sure u use ur grizz constantly for splitting...

 

then u win by splitting cus grizz faster...

 

if sov good enough u dont win.. so u gota pull tech and spy

 

 

i maxed 5 since i figured allied tech tree is strong.. and u need rockies like 10-15 the least.. dont get planes.. use korea if u wana plane

 

only sell lab and or mcv if its really end.. even sell mcv b4 lab. 1 chrono legionaire turns a game


Edited by JoKuJaK, 22 February 2014 - 09:05 PM.


#41 Drasten

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

Joku 1-2 harriers middle/lategame isnt a bad idea though. Vs allieds they 1 shoot prismtanks and almost 1 shoot mirages tanks which is awsome. Vs sov they arent as usefull but they are still good at picking down tracks/desos imo. Usually when i buy 1-2 planes they will pay their cost back in killed enemy units, and then some. Just kill 1 deso with it and its already half way payed for itself.


Edited by Drasten, 22 February 2014 - 11:27 PM.


#42 JoKuJaK

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:27 AM

harriers are bad... to weak/slow vs rockies and to useless vs soviets.

any soviet will bring 5 deso where he would only need 1 of them to actually deploy.

also, if u soviet-allied style which would be 4-5 warfac before tech, you would be split attacking..

now whats better.. to kill 1 deso/flak or to kill like an mcv/miner..

 

 

captain obvious but ok; after some mistakes in splits you can always get engi ifv to repair. bonus facts is ppl r scared shitless of engi ifv's and its free repairs so next split attack u can afford worse damage in a splitfail.

 

also.. soviet-allie style is like only warfac no rockies.. this actually means on cliff maps get like 10-20, on no cliff maps like 0-5

 

oh yes my allies was scary sometimes xD

 

 

i actually think that the allies i just described made tomislav decide to rush vegeta @ 2 min each game.. not sure i duno how veg plyed vs tomi :o but im pretty sure vegeta used them spy's alot


Edited by JoKuJaK, 23 February 2014 - 12:41 AM.


#43 KoninhoPau

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:52 AM

joku u watched to much dragonball Z



#44 Seke

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:08 AM

joku u watched to much dragonball Z

 

Too much of something... That's for damn sure.



#45 KoninhoPau

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:30 AM

i dont know what his real name is but ive always read veg as fag. maybe its just me.



#46 JoKuJaK

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:45 AM

Joku = in DBZ in my dreams

 

must be brolly or some :devil:

ye it was a bad movie

 

 

 

update ur sig tim!


Edited by JoKuJaK, 23 February 2014 - 05:08 AM.


#47 Drasten

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:38 PM

JoKu i really do think your under-rating the usefullness of the harrier. The way i see it if you simplify everything alot, is a unit can be considered worth it, aslong as it kills enemy units/structures that cost more then what the unit itself costed to build. If you successfully spied your enemies war factory, blab or barracks i can totally buy your argument that harriers are no longer worth it. Simply because a vet prism, mirage, grizzly, rocky or chrono commando will usually be more successfull in killing enemy units/structures for a greater value then harriers will. However if you didnt spy you opponent i think that 1-2 harriers usually (for me anyways) are able to kill enemy stuff for way over their 1.200 price-tag if you micro them properly. And thats not even counting the fact they do kinda provide a niche feature most allied units cant (being able to kill desos thats guarded by flak tracks/cannons in combination with tanks) Prismtanks and rockies can do this aswell, but not as cost efficiently as harriers usually can. Well unless the rockies/prismtanks comes out vet ofcourse, which i discussed earlier.

 

Also i belive you are HEAVILY underrating the usefullness of planes in AvA games. AvA games, atleast late game often end up with mirage and prismtank spam. Now we both know mirages counters grizzlytanks and prismtanks counter mirage-tanks. So both players are likely to end up with some if not alot of prism-tanks late game. (atleast 5+ prismtanks, maybe even 15+) If these prismtanks are surrounded by some sort of anti air, usually ifv;s patriots or rocky-clouds, its NOT cost efficient to send in your rockies to try and deal with the prismtanks since the cost of lost rockies usually will be larger then the cost of his prism-tanks. In these types of situations a safe and cost-efficient way to deal with the prism-tanks are harriers. Harriers has the same price-tag as prismtanks and they also 1 shoot them. What this means is that with good enough plane-micro (even if he has tons of anti-air around his prismtanks) will be cost effective since you will be able to clear like 1-3 prismtanks per harrier before it dies.

 

Contruary to what you stated, harriers arent slow. Infact they are rather fast, capable of outphasing any unit, (ifv;s by going over height-differences on map or water to force them to take a bad route) and rockies by simply not flying within their fire-range to much. So with enough micro harriers are infact quite durable, and with the ability to 1 shoot those prism-tanks they do provide a key function in alot of late game AvA games, atleast if its a campy map.


Edited by Drasten, 23 February 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#48 JoKuJaK

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:24 PM

hariers are half decent when superweapons are on so you can get like 6-7 which would kill most buildings but an MCV.

this amount is good for buildings and also to kill units with.. but you wouldnt be able to make sw yourself.

 

for the rest they are only units good players like to see to either make their ifv's go veteran/elite or to see you have spend 1200 more already b4 uve killed anything yet... if u say u take out my tank queue i'll say its great to have splits with ifv's vs allies..

 

 

 

vs soviets.. 1 harier could be half decent later in the game if uve got 1200 to spend but true soviets love allies who make air units... THEREFOR i know its better to get 2 extra rockie instead of 1 harier to give you more opurtunity to controll the field... if u got like 10 rockie, you can have 2 teams. thats 2 flaks... and thats being static.. u move he moves.. so ur ahead so he would need 4 flak instead of 2, now add your grizz queue and paradrop possibility to the splits and he will be in big trouble since he now gotta def everything already; his base his eco his army and his AA-def. (take out AA with griz splits)

 

reason i wouldnt make harier v sov and more rockie is because the soviet will be just like 1% more in comfort.. he'll be checking your afc since you would be pressuring.. so he will accept his position in war,, then some time later (dont fall behind on warfacs the first 3 the least!)you pull the true allied power to seal the game which is spy his warf.. and/or radar.. ref..

 

im actually sure vegeta would see the spy infact too as the most important factor in allied ownag


Edited by JoKuJaK, 23 February 2014 - 05:36 PM.


#49 Drasten

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:46 PM

hariers are half decent when superweapons are on so you can get like 6-7 which would kill most buildings but an MCV.

this amount is good for buildings and also to kill units with.. but you wouldnt be able to make sw yourself.

 

for the rest they are only units good players like to see to either make their ifv's go veteran/elite or to see you have spend 1200 more already b4 uve killed anything yet... if u say u take out my tank queue i'll say its great to have splits with ifv's vs allies..

 

 

 

vs soviets.. 1 harier could be half decent later in the game if uve got 1200 to spend but true soviets love allies who make air units... THEREFOR i know its better to get 2 extra rockie instead of 1 harier to give you more opurtunity to controll the field... if u got like 10 rockie, you can have 2 teams. thats 2 flaks... and thats being static.. u move he moves.. so ur ahead so he would need 4 flak instead of 2, now add your grizz queue and paradrop possibility to the splits and he will be in big trouble since he now gotta def everything already; his base his eco his army and his AA-def. (take out AA with griz splits)

 

reason i wouldnt make harier v sov and more rockie is because the soviet will be just like 1% more in comfort.. he'll be checking your afc since you would be pressuring.. so he will accept his position in war,, then some time later (dont fall behind on warfacs the first 3 the least!)you pull the true allied power to seal the game which is spy his warf.. and/or radar.. ref..

 

im actually sure vegeta would see the spy infact too as the most important factor in allied ownag

 

Getting 6-7 harriers isnt a good way to deal with iron curtain^^ Its WAAAY to expensive and easy to stop. Tanya+ifv or chopper combined with hard harassment is a most cost-effective and safer way to go. You forgot to comment on harriers usefullness vs allied. I think if you have to rate the harrier vs soviet and vs allied between a rating of 1-5 where 5 is great and 1 is almost useless. I would rate is 2/5 vs soviet, 4/5 vs allied.


Edited by Drasten, 25 February 2014 - 03:50 PM.


#50 JoKuJaK

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:37 PM

6-7 planes was A vs A.

 

 

btw i made mistake in 1 thing, if u go 3 warf u can get behind in ur warf queue vs soviets.. because u gona need afc after first or 2nd warf so ull get behind anyway in warf's.. but he'll need radar for deso so it gets even again.. then after ur 3rd war u can make like 5 rockies extra (if u already had 2) else make 5 rockies anyway because its 2 group dmg split (when ur USA)

 

korea is diff


Edited by JoKuJaK, 25 February 2014 - 07:37 PM.



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