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Complete List Of TS Bugs, Glitches and Cheats/Hacks


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#26 Inacurate

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:17 PM

Except the RA2 engineer?


It's been a while for me in RA2, but I believe you have the means to successfully defend from that with the appropriate structures and units?

#27 IcyFlames

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:21 PM

It's been a while for me in RA2, but I believe you have the means to successfully defend from that with the appropriate structures and units?


Well that's the same for the carry+dizz, except maybe on a different part of the scale. For example, if you walled your CY you could both defend against the dizz in TS and the eng in RA2. If you have enough SAMS you can defend against the dizz and eng (chopper)...

It might be harder to defend against the dizz, but it's not an entire world apart..

#28 phatmouse

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:30 PM

NOD is not ment to be played defensively IMO

#29 Inacurate

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:44 PM

Well that's the same for the carry+dizz, except maybe on a different part of the scale. For example, if you walled your CY you could both defend against the dizz in TS and the eng in RA2. If you have enough SAMS you can defend against the dizz and eng (chopper)...

It might be harder to defend against the dizz, but it's not an entire world apart..


Your argument is coming from the "But you can do this.." variety, and doesn't fit in with the current discussion of game play and balance. I'll comment a bit though, since the differences are vast.

I say this because, there are a number of things one can do to defend an attack, but some of them set you back far enough that you are unable to win due to being slowed down on trying to defend against something that may not come. It's one thing to be slowed down by losing a refinery. Quite another to take the time and money to build a defense that is stationary and may never been used. vs NOD, GDI can use Titans and bombers to defend from most attacks, also both of which can be used to go on the offense. vs GDI, NOD has one unit that wouldn't even guarantee a successful(by itself, not losing a building) defense and still be used to attack, and that is the Cyborg Commando! The next two closest candidates are the banshee and harpy, neither of which can kill a disruptor or engineer before they complete their goal.

Having to build four wall sections, for the sole purpose of defending against one(or two) type of attack, is not a balanced solution. If said wall also doubled as a 100% infantry defense, it would be more acceptable. On top of not being a balanced solution, it of course carries with it the negative implications of having to disrupt your build order to place the wall, early enough to be used. If most players are talking about BOs and economy to the point where seconds matter, it again becomes a balance issue as there is not one single NOD unit that would "force" a GDI player to make a wall. A bomber handles engineers better than a wall, the only NOD unit close enough for GDI to make walls, and making a bomber does not negatively impact your progress. If NOD had what GDI can use against infrantry, but for the disruptor, it wouldn't be an issue in my eyes, but NOD has no such "easy" counter that factors in forward progress and also the ability to use as offense on the flip side.

The difference between the games, is that in RA2(and again, I can't remember it like I do TS) you have effective and less disrupting means with which to defend against that attack. The points to look at in these types of discussions, are what are the options for defense and does the other side have the same worry and fear of impending attack, and if so, what are their options.

The amount of SAMs required to defend from the disruptor landing, increases drastically as decoy air units are added to the mix. If NOD could target SAMs manually, it wouldn't be an issue. As NOD is unable to do so, it would severely impact forward progress to successfully build enough SAMs for absolute coverage compared to the ease of the GDI player being able to simply build more air units.

#30 jZampageX

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:09 PM

The game is balanced just fine... and the diss should remain where it is. Irregardless of whether or not it is meant to be, there are lots of advantages nod has over GDI that if utilized by a correct and proper player, definitely outweight that 'downside' of a 1 shot diss. Ray has pointed plenty of them out. Though an MK may be more destructive/powerful then a CC, in my opinion a CC has far more potential put in the right hands. I've played around in tournies before and singehandedly won by just owning harvs with a jacker then driving them to a CC and killing it rinse and repeat... keep a sub nearby if any bombers are legitimate threats. You can farm harvs like it's christmas time.

#31 Inacurate

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:50 PM

It is true that NOD units don't have the force-firing abilities that GDI units have but it can be argued that GDI lacks alot of the abilities that NOD possess:


Everything I comment on below, comes down to effectiveness. I do not want to type that word out a million times, so I am going to say it here and hopefully not have to reply pointing it out. Also, original post had to many quote blocks, so I had to condense. Quotes and replies are in order...

Yes, both sides have their own abilities that are of course unique, however in a multiplayer game vs equals, most of NODs are never used because they are useless, ineffective, cost to much time/money or give no advantage. I'll list those first.

3) NOD also can unleash havoc with multi-missles and chemical missles and a good nod player can 1 shot a GDI cy with a missle - something GDI cannot do.
5) NOD has long ranged artillary units to keep GDI at bay - something GDI doesn't have
8) NOD is capable of repairing units for free while GDI has to build a service depot and spend resources to repair units
9) NOD can deploy Tick Tanks which makes them virtually indestructable - again something GDI lacks.


One-shot missles should be fixed. Chemical missiles are ineffective in most cases.


Artillery units take far to long to destroy a target, unless you have enough of them, and not enough time to build them to be used. They are also ineffective as offensive units, because you have no means with which to protect them advancing across the ground from GDI bombers.


"Has to build?" - Every GDI has to build a service depot for the ability to make carry-alls. I don't recall(and can't find) the price of a depot, but I know the difference between each is minute. A carry-all can also be used to transport damaged units back and forth, whereas NOD would be required to have their mobile repair unit in the field with no means with which to sufficiently protect it from bombers.


Yeah...about tick tanks. They sound nice, but compared to an equal amount of titans they lose. Also, need I mention bombers? No way to get them in position to be used offensively, like the artillery unit.



The next of these, while they sound like they are nice, turn out to be shallow statements in most cases when we are talking about, again, multi-player games.

1) NOD has the ability to steal GDI units, harvesters. and MCV's using the mutant hi-jacker - something GDI does not have
2) NOD has the ability to cloack and use subterranian units - again something GDI doesn't have.
4) NOD has the ability to make sams a click faster then GDI but also suffers from low power - something GDI doesn't have
6) NOD harpy is far superior to GDI orca - GDI needs a teir 2 bomber to kill infantry units and even still cannot catch some of the faster NOD units
7) NOD banshees are cheaper and faster and can ten of them can kill 3 critical structures while GDI bombers can only kill 2
10) NOD has teir 1 infantry that can attack air units - again something GDI does not


One unit at a time and is easy to defend 100% against with one bomber, the benefit of this unit compared to it's success and the ease to defend from it does not make it worth the effort. No need for GDI to go out of their way for defense. One bomber on a circular waypoint, in guard mode, it starts the attack as a sub-APC pops up, and the bombs are dropping as the mutant hijacker is exiting. If I were to try and wait til the bomber passed, most GDI players also have at least ONE titan in the field, which would finish it off. If you get your yard jacked, I'm seriously going to laugh! ;)


Please see below for thoughts on subterrean units. Cloaking would be the best thing in the same, except it is not perfect! You can see the units I make as they roll out of the factory, you can hear units as they exit and leave the cloak radius and you can see the buildings I make as I place them. It is only useful if setup before the area is scouted by the enemy, when there are no units leaving it and needs to be left undefened(for the most part) lest some trigger happy unit give it all away. I do not call the cloak an advantage in a multi-player game. I've used them well vs some...shall we say, not skilled players, and had a blast, but I would never even dream about wasting the time, money and power in a multi-player game, not worth it.


Ah yes, the degredation of the RTS genre by APM or "how fast you can click!" - anyway. While NOD can make those in a single click, the power requirements offset the advantage of less clicks. If one SAM was all I needed to protect my base, it would be a HUGE advantage for NOD. However, it requires a lot more than one SAM for protection. You bring up the GDI advantages here however, no power requirement AND you have the triple purpose component tower. GDI can place some towers around their base and leave them unused and only build the appropriate upgrade if needed. This allows for a more versatile and much more cost-effective defense.


The harpy is superior to the orca vs infantry, however that advantage has negligible benefit since the two most likely GDI infantry it will be used on, can complete their missions before a harpy can kill them. One engineer takes two or three(I can't remember which for sure) "shots" from the harpy to die. One harpy alone cannot stop a fully loaded APC of engineers from taking one building. The GDI bomber on the other hand, can kill the maximum number of engineers an APC can fit, twice. Those faster NOD units, are extremely weak offensively, and in the case of the attack cycle, which needs to be stationary to fire, negating their speed.


Unless the banshees are stacked and all ten fire at the same time, an engineer can easily stop them from killing a building in the first pass. If there are no SAMs or Firestorm, the GDI player is dead anyway so this is a moot point for additional passes. If either SAMs or Firestorm are present, the SAMs will kill one banshee prior to a second pass being done and an engineer will ensure the building is not lost. Firestorm will make it unwise to stack the banshees, and it is also still a good bet that banshees will be lost since their attack pattern is predictable. Not to mention, Firestorm protects 100% from air attacks, when activated. Unlike SAMs.


Yes, but said infantry can at no point be massed enough to stop an appropriate number of bombers. Since the bombs are AOE, they take out multiple infantry units with each bomb making the success rate of said infantry, extremely low. Even when massed, you would have to have them so spread out that a GDI player could systematically take them out with just bombers, nevermind wolverines or a Stalker/Disc men.


you get my point, NOD utilises a completely different set of sklils from GDI and where it falls short to Hit points and Destructive power of GDI units it makes up for it with Speed, Stealth, and Subterranian units.

I think it is pretty fairly balanced on both sides but GDI has emerged as being dominant in 1vs1 games especially on Terrace


The problem with the above statement, is you mentioned two things that rarely get utilized in a TS game. Aside from the building speed, which is to offset requiring weaker units, stealth never is the deciding factor in a game vs equally matched enemies, never.

Of the two subterranean units, the flame tank is a joke. It does less than a knat vs a comet. Running with the idea of using them however, GDI has two means with which to make them even less effective than they already weren't. The detector, of course and pavement. Normally, I would say pavement would fall into the same place as building a wall to protect from engineers, however there is a side bonus to having payment, and that is it increases the speed of land units traveling across it. So to me, it's a wash as there IS a benefit from spending money and time to place it, a useless offensive object. Talking about the subterranean APC, GDI's bomber handles the engineers and I believe it is a minimum of three titans to take out a CC before it can fire four shots, the necessary amount to take out a high profile structure. I touched off on the Mutant-hijacker and sub-APC above.

#32 jZampageX

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 07:32 AM

Serious question. If you hate TS this much, why are you trolling these forums?

Either accept it, or move on. This 10 year dilemma has to be coming to a conclusion for you soon.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't understand your need to constantly be abrasive and find a flaw in everyone elses statement. I find the balance issues nonexistant in TS. I've played it on and off for 11 years, and it was far more unbalanced in the beginning then it is now. GDI disc men didn't explode being one of the many problems that has been resolved.

Quite simply, GDI is played because it's more 'versatile' then Nod, and in my opinion, people love the 'power' that comes with it, whether that be the almighty titan, the brute MK, or the destructive disruptor. However, where GDI falls short is where Nod exceeds, for instance, stealth attacks, whether it be from fast travelling devastatin banshees, or underground subs containing engineers or a CC, it doesn't really matter. Plus, Nod defense is amazing. If you get a nod player to the middle in terrace, there is no reason they should ever lose. 5 artillerys, 2 obelisks, and 5 or so sams, you've got that sealed up tighter then a drum.

#33 Inacurate

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:03 PM

I will respond later to your post, when I have time. I just remembered another thing that needs to be fixed, one of NODs biggest issues IMO, not sure how I forgot it and don't want to forget it again. :D

The banshee bug / glitch that allows you to fire at a building / location from across the map. I'm not sure of the exact steps to do it, but I remember this one causing some grief!

#34 IcyFlames

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:24 PM

I will respond later to your post, when I have time. I just remembered another thing that needs to be fixed, one of NODs biggest issues IMO, not sure how I forgot it and don't want to forget it again. :D

The banshee bug / glitch that allows you to fire at a building / location from across the map. I'm not sure of the exact steps to do it, but I remember this one causing some grief!


You sure they haven't fixed it with the 2.03 patch?

I remember doing it in skirmish when I had about 20 bans, I just force fired then rapidly clicked on an enemy building, and some of the shots flew towards it. But I thought that was on the unpatched version...

#35 phatmouse

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 01:35 PM

You sure they haven't fixed it with the 2.03 patch?

I remember doing it in skirmish when I had about 20 bans, I just force fired then rapidly clicked on an enemy building, and some of the shots flew towards it. But I thought that was on the unpatched version...



Yer, they fixed the banshee glitch problem with the 2.03 patch.

I will respond later to some of Inacurates' rebuttals, but as of now, I have a 600 mile journey across the state of Tx to attend too =)

#36 Inacurate

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:31 PM

Serious question. If you hate TS this much, why are you trolling these forums?

Either accept it, or move on. This 10 year dilemma has to be coming to a conclusion for you soon.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't understand your need to constantly be abrasive and find a flaw in everyone elses statement. I find the balance issues nonexistant in TS. I've played it on and off for 11 years, and it was far more unbalanced in the beginning then it is now. GDI disc men didn't explode being one of the many problems that has been resolved.

Quite simply, GDI is played because it's more 'versatile' then Nod, and in my opinion, people love the 'power' that comes with it, whether that be the almighty titan, the brute MK, or the destructive disruptor. However, where GDI falls short is where Nod exceeds, for instance, stealth attacks, whether it be from fast travelling devastatin banshees, or underground subs containing engineers or a CC, it doesn't really matter. Plus, Nod defense is amazing. If you get a nod player to the middle in terrace, there is no reason they should ever lose. 5 artillerys, 2 obelisks, and 5 or so sams, you've got that sealed up tighter then a drum.


Nothing said below in reply to jZampageX is said out of anger or hostility or an attempt to be rude. If you can't recognize none of that is in my words, please do not even bother to read.

Who said I hate TS or where do I come across as hating it? Making the assumption that I hate this game, based on me being VOCAL, is the wrong thing to do. I think Tiberian Sun is the best RTS I have ever played, bar none. Some do things better, some of course easily look better, however for the complete package of what matters(RTS elements) none surpass TS even with its issues.

Calling me or inferring I am trolling these forums, is either a comprehension issue you have with being able to read words, or a knee-jerk reaction after dealing with some of the bottom of the barrel types that have frequented the entire TS community. I have been nothing but clear and concise with my words in this thread, offering facts and reasoning. If you can't understand something I say, let me know and I will be happy to clarify.

If you think I have been(before this post) abrasive, that is your opinion and you are obviously not reading(see above paragraph) my words or are unable to detach your own feelings about the subject in question and look at it from an unbiased perspective. I say this because of your next comment "I find the balance issues nonexistant in TS" - An opinion is your addition to what I posted above? A mere opinion, with no facts, no details, nothing but how each side is played. Which is fine, but not for game play and balance issue discussions. How a game is played, is entirely based on game play and balance issues, not the other way around. ;)

Please tell me you are joking about your last paragraph, on both points??? I could steamroll that(NOD in middle) easy as a GDI player, because I have had it happen to me a number of times myself. :) An EMP works wonders coupled with 10 titans or 5 bombers plus a clean up crew. The problem with your statement about NOD stealth and speed, is as I explained in a previous post: When it comes to multi-player games, stealth is almost NEVER used at high level game play and the speed is easily and cheaply countered by even an average GDI player with the most basic units.

And yes, believe me I know NOD defense is amazing: It was the center of my entire play style. Playing me at my prime was equivalent to trying to drive a car up a building. Unless you were Batman, of course. ;)

You sure they haven't fixed it with the 2.03 patch?

I remember doing it in skirmish when I had about 20 bans, I just force fired then rapidly clicked on an enemy building, and some of the shots flew towards it. But I thought that was on the unpatched version...


Looks like they did. I can't remember them all, just glad it was fixed! :)

#37 jZampageX

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:52 PM

Just seems like you are constantly looking for a way to compile some sort of incident.

If nod is in the middle, there should be no reason the GDI should even be competition at that point. :) At least, now adays that is.

#38 Inacurate

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 07:28 PM

Just seems like you are constantly looking for a way to compile some sort of incident.

If nod is in the middle, there should be no reason the GDI should even be competition at that point. :) At least, now adays that is.


I'm always looking for a way to improve a situation, a procedure or process. My mind is always churning, always. ;) Regardless of what I am trying to do here in this thread, I'm always waiting for others to bring forth valid arguments! That's what having a discussion is about, one person says something and another responds with information to refute the first person. The first person gives up additional insight or reasons why the second person's arguments are invalid with more detail, repeat. I can't help it if that doesn't happen on the internet and people can't formulate proper arguments against my own.

With the exception of me back in my day, if a NOD player hadn't won within ten minutes they were usually toast. I was the only one who sought games longer than ten minutes because I always like to buck the system and do things differently than the norm. I'm not sure what the current trend is now, but it's just a big circle of what is "most popular" and in use now.

#39 jZampageX

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:02 AM

Games rarely end in the first 10 minutes anymore. People generally don't do odd BO's and as a result it tends to go long - something that shouldn't happen to be honest, because there is only a few well developed long games out there, the rest just CBA'd and as a result it's just a waste of time.

Only problem nod has imo that is a bit of an imbalance is expansion. It's so easy for GDI to expand with mobile defense like titans. Nod has to have a stable banshee back supply as well as a sufficient amount of sams... something that isn't quite as cheap as 3 or 4 titans and 1 gdi sam.

But, if you can get a GDI partner to carry you the first 10 minutes of the game, you can most certainly carry them the last hour.

#40 jZampageX

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:02 AM

Games rarely end in the first 10 minutes anymore. People generally don't do odd BO's and as a result it tends to go long - something that shouldn't happen to be honest, because there is only a few well developed long games out there, the rest just CBA'd and as a result it's just a waste of time.

Only problem nod has imo that is a bit of an imbalance is expansion. It's so easy for GDI to expand with mobile defense like titans. Nod has to have a stable banshee back supply as well as a sufficient amount of sams... something that isn't quite as cheap as 3 or 4 titans and 1 gdi sam.

But, if you can get a GDI partner to carry you the first 10 minutes of the game, you can most certainly carry them the last hour.

#41 Inacurate

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:17 PM

Games rarely end in the first 10 minutes anymore. People generally don't do odd BO's and as a result it tends to go long - something that shouldn't happen to be honest, because there is only a few well developed long games out there, the rest just CBA'd and as a result it's just a waste of time.

Only problem nod has imo that is a bit of an imbalance is expansion. It's so easy for GDI to expand with mobile defense like titans. Nod has to have a stable banshee back supply as well as a sufficient amount of sams... something that isn't quite as cheap as 3 or 4 titans and 1 gdi sam.

But, if you can get a GDI partner to carry you the first 10 minutes of the game, you can most certainly carry them the last hour.


But you are still arguing from a "how the game is played" point and not going past that to explain why NOD "has an imbalance when expanding!" If you recognize there is a problem, there has to be a cause. I'm going past the problem and trying to talk about the causes. If NOD is perceived to have a problem expanding(which I don't actually agree with) then is it because their air units aren't as effective as GDI bombers, is it because their ground units aren't are effective as GDI's?

If games rarely end in ten minutes, I'm glad to hear that, but also wary because people around here continue to talk about using disruptors....which, as the game goes on that unit because less effective mid&late game because NOD will have backup buildings(I hope) and in that case, games were decided with bombers & titans.

CBA'd? Can't say I've heard that term before.

#42 CCHyper

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:50 PM

Whoah, im lost with all these posts! :p

#43 jZampageX

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 01:50 PM

But you are still arguing from a "how the game is played" point and not going past that to explain why NOD "has an imbalance when expanding!" If you recognize there is a problem, there has to be a cause. I'm going past the problem and trying to talk about the causes. If NOD is perceived to have a problem expanding(which I don't actually agree with) then is it because their air units aren't as effective as GDI bombers, is it because their ground units aren't are effective as GDI's?

If games rarely end in ten minutes, I'm glad to hear that, but also wary because people around here continue to talk about using disruptors....which, as the game goes on that unit because less effective mid&late game because NOD will have backup buildings(I hope) and in that case, games were decided with bombers & titans.

CBA'd? Can't say I've heard that term before.

CBA - Can't be Arsed, seems to be a Euro term that I've picked up (thanks Urab, Doyley, Dan, etc. :p)

Nod does have a disadvantage when it comes to expansion. One of the primary offensive units, we heavily rely on as a defensive unit (Banshees) The problem with Bans like I said before is they aren't exactly cheap like a titan, as mobile, and have the disadvantage of having to charge their ammo. Anyone one good player will agree that Nod lacks in the expansion department, where GDI excels. The difference, Nod doesn't need as much cash to survive, they are highly suvivable in the right hands. I've only recently dropped GDI all together and started building up a strong Nod game that I think is much more powerful in a 2v2 with a GDI/Nod VS a GDI/GDI and has lots more capabilities.

If you're looking for solutions, your suggesting ways to change the way the game has been played well, forever, so that simply isn't going to happen. I suppose I would look more into as an adaption then a mutation of Nod gameplay. In essence, to overcompensate for that, what should we do as Nod, go safe BO's and bunk? I certainly won't do that... often times a Nod bunk can be debunked with the ease of constant pressure from alted discmen and titans. I've found discmen particularly inexpensive and more effective then anything when it comes to crippling a good nod player, the only downside is that you have to have an intense amount of micro to dodge lasers or harpies. Then comes into the role, how does Nod counteract, well... artillery is far more powerful then you let one. 4 Artillery can kill a disrupted before a second shot destroys a building. Pair that with a couple bans, it can't even 1 shot a building. Let alone, the range is... well... need I say more?

In my opinion, the good nod players are ones who play aggressive but don't do absurd BO's that GDI can generally get away with (i.e. 2 ref diss or something). Unlike GDI, Nod's rockets are powerful defense, but suck against anyone who knows how to Q. Besides rockets, there isn't much of a Tier 1 unit that is an effective defense. Ticks truly do suck, deployed or not deployed, the only thing I use ticks for is I'll build 2 and put em in an expo tib field because of an MK where he can't even phase them.

So, an aggressive Nod = a good Nod. I think we can all agree there. Then you run into TRZ who are effective bunk nods and highly survivable and cost effective where they'll use the same CC all game and only use their bans when they go for a KO and use them as defense the rest of the time. Good idea, but I see more bunks nods fall then I do offensive nods.

I believe there is not an imbalance because, quite simply - I've seen above average nods topple and steamroll the best players on this game. Explain that? They weren't sleeping, I've observed plenty of games that show this. Not only that, but I, an inexperienced nod player, can beat some of the top players with it. There is nothing about them that sucks, every unit, I have found, has a role, unlike GDI's. The attack buggy is a nice scout, bikes are great for adversity when it comes to harv killing, etc. etc. Wtf is a wolverine for, until recent I thought they were pointless, but I've seen them in a couple inf rushes, they are surprisingly effective lol, thats besides the point.

#44 Inacurate

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 02:45 PM

CBA - Can't be Arsed, seems to be a Euro term that I've picked up (thanks Urab, Doyley, Dan, etc. :p)


Ah, dang Euro's. ;)

Nod does have a disadvantage when it comes to expansion. One of the primary offensive units, we heavily rely on as a defensive unit (Banshees) The problem with Bans like I said before is they aren't exactly cheap like a titan, as mobile, and have the disadvantage of having to charge their ammo. Anyone one good player will agree that Nod lacks in the expansion department, where GDI excels. The difference, Nod doesn't need as much cash to survive, they are highly suvivable in the right hands. I've only recently dropped GDI all together and started building up a strong Nod game that I think is much more powerful in a 2v2 with a GDI/Nod VS a GDI/GDI and has lots more capabilities.

If you're looking for solutions, your suggesting ways to change the way the game has been played well, forever, so that simply isn't going to happen. I suppose I would look more into as an adaption then a mutation of Nod gameplay. In essence, to overcompensate for that, what should we do as Nod, go safe BO's and bunk? I certainly won't do that... often times a Nod bunk can be debunked with the ease of constant pressure from alted discmen and titans. I've found discmen particularly inexpensive and more effective then anything when it comes to crippling a good nod player, the only downside is that you have to have an intense amount of micro to dodge lasers or harpies. Then comes into the role, how does Nod counteract, well... artillery is far more powerful then you let one. 4 Artillery can kill a disrupted before a second shot destroys a building. Pair that with a couple bans, it can't even 1 shot a building. Let alone, the range is... well... need I say more?

In my opinion, the good nod players are ones who play aggressive but don't do absurd BO's that GDI can generally get away with (i.e. 2 ref diss or something). Unlike GDI, Nod's rockets are powerful defense, but suck against anyone who knows how to Q. Besides rockets, there isn't much of a Tier 1 unit that is an effective defense. Ticks truly do suck, deployed or not deployed, the only thing I use ticks for is I'll build 2 and put em in an expo tib field because of an MK where he can't even phase them.

So, an aggressive Nod = a good Nod. I think we can all agree there. Then you run into TRZ who are effective bunk nods and highly survivable and cost effective where they'll use the same CC all game and only use their bans when they go for a KO and use them as defense the rest of the time. Good idea, but I see more bunks nods fall then I do offensive nods.

I believe there is not an imbalance because, quite simply - I've seen above average nods topple and steamroll the best players on this game. Explain that? They weren't sleeping, I've observed plenty of games that show this. Not only that, but I, an inexperienced nod player, can beat some of the top players with it. There is nothing about them that sucks, every unit, I have found, has a role, unlike GDI's. The attack buggy is a nice scout, bikes are great for adversity when it comes to harv killing, etc. etc. Wtf is a wolverine for, until recent I thought they were pointless, but I've seen them in a couple inf rushes, they are surprisingly effective lol, thats besides the point.


Again, just about everything you talked about is "how" the game is played, and has little to do with actual game play and balance fixes. It shouldn't matter if "that is how it has been played forever" - that statement is basically admitting there are balance issues, but because they are accepted now, they shouldn't even be looked at!

You talk about strategy and tactics and not single instances or abilities of units, you are looking at the big picture and again, how many times must this be repeated, for balance issues none of that matters. The original idea here was to fix bugs, glitches and cheats/hacks. If anything does end up changing, everyone is going to have to adjust.

Do people still use the build glitch from TL on Terrace? When I played, it was "accepted" that it was "necessary" for the spot to be fair and it was OK to be used. Is that still the case? If so, who is going to want to play from TL if this is fixed? Even if the engine is adjusted to also make it so NOD can't do it, it won't affect my game play from that position because I had adjusted to not using it a long time ago.

If you are beating top players and consider yourself an inexperienced NOD, then I say they aren't top players. You are talking about how games are won and lost and by whom with what side, but all of that changes when bugs and glitches are fixed.

Fixing things should be done right, irregardless of how it may affect how people play the game or what the popular opinion is, because in a video game the popular opinion usually sides with whatever makes it easier or quicker to win.

TRZ by the way, learned that playing style from someone and, assuming he wouldn't deny it just because, guess who? ;) I mistakenly played a game with him, the last game I have played actually, and he cheated me in it. Was quite amusing. He says otherwise, of course. Good times.

The only kind of statements that should happen in this thread, are things along the likes "How many shots from a titan should it taken to kill x" or "How many passes with a single banshee to kill y" but for bugs and glitches - Not things like "It's accepted it takes 10 banshee to take out a yard, factory, refinery, so we can't change that!" Two different discussions, two different areas of the game! :)

Whoah, im lost with all these posts! :p


One at a time. :)

Or, just ignore everyone else and fix what I mention. :p

#45 jZampageX

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:22 PM

What I'm trying to get at by giving you examples is there isn't a balance issue. Sure, people toggle out of TL all the time... it's become widely accepted, WW had approved it, as did ST, saying it isn't considered a cheat. I don't see what you mean by Nod not being able to, I toggle out in RM on FF all the time to expo, in fact I toggle just about any cliff I can get my hands on these days.

You're looking to argue a point that doesn't exist, because widely speaking most players would willingly disagree with you. There isn't a balance issue, the downsides to GDI are matched by those of Nod, and visa versa. It's hard to compare sunlight and darkness, so why are we trying to? Fact of the matter is, it's both part of the day, just like they are both part of the game. No one is being forced to play one or the other, people chose to.

People chose GDI over Nod, in my opinion, because it's easier to become an effective GDI then it is to be an effective Nod, but Nod overcompensates with diversity. What does GDI have, Carryalls and walking across the map? It's a sense of surprise versus the previous stated.

So, in my opinion (and many others), there isn't any "bugs, glitches, cheats/hacks" that interfere with Nod being at a disadvantage to GDI, let alone balancing issues.

#46 Inacurate

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

What I'm trying to get at by giving you examples is there isn't a balance issue. Sure, people toggle out of TL all the time... it's become widely accepted, WW had approved it, as did ST, saying it isn't considered a cheat. I don't see what you mean by Nod not being able to, I toggle out in RM on FF all the time to expo, in fact I toggle just about any cliff I can get my hands on these days.

You're looking to argue a point that doesn't exist, because widely speaking most players would willingly disagree with you. There isn't a balance issue, the downsides to GDI are matched by those of Nod, and visa versa. It's hard to compare sunlight and darkness, so why are we trying to? Fact of the matter is, it's both part of the day, just like they are both part of the game. No one is being forced to play one or the other, people chose to.

People chose GDI over Nod, in my opinion, because it's easier to become an effective GDI then it is to be an effective Nod, but Nod overcompensates with diversity. What does GDI have, Carryalls and walking across the map? It's a sense of surprise versus the previous stated.

So, in my opinion (and many others), there isn't any "bugs, glitches, cheats/hacks" that interfere with Nod being at a disadvantage to GDI, let alone balancing issues.


Your examples are irrelevant when you are saying "you can do this or that" - Those sort of statements are what we do WITH balance issues or how players justify or use a given ability or unit. An example would be stating that GDI 's air power is so much more powerful against a group of engineers compared to NOD's air power vs that same group, is discussing the balance issue. If you mass engineers at a location and send one bomber, one orca, one harpy and one banshee at said group, which unit is the most effective vs the group?

Just because it is accepted, does not make it any less of a cheat. I highly doubt Westwood would come out and officially state that bugs, glitches, etc are acceptable. Saying they are not going to fix them, does not count. No one other than Westwood or EA could make that claim. My meaning is that, NOD can build out from TL(and most other cliffs) without having to "glitch" the system at all. Temple of NOD, try it. ;)

This isn't a popularity contest, nor should any fixes that may be done, be based on "popular opinion." You just coming out and stating there isn't a balance issue in some locations, is your opinion and thus far you have not offered one fact to back it up other than "It's the way the game is played now!" I on the other hand, have offered facts, numbers and even counter-points. Again, all you keep saying is "This is how it's played!" - Which has no right being in a discussion of this level.

Let's do this, make a list of GDI and NOD units that you are most likely to see taking out a refinery, from most to least. Just the units, I will show you exactly what is going through my head. :)

#47 Favor

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 12:01 AM

infs-infs
discs-rockets
tits-ticks
cc-mk
eng-eng
mlrs-bikes
bans-fighters

diz but jacker easily defend

ts was thought out a little to make it even yes gdi seems better but if someone is good at nod they're gonna be more superior

#48 jZampageX

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 12:15 AM

My order from most obvious goes

Diss / Engy
Tit / CC
MK / inf
Bomber / Bans
Inf / Bikes
Hover / Ticks

I see nothing wrong with that list.

However, I tested your TL TON thing... wow that's actually really interesting... I find it hard to believe TL on terrace was the dev's decision... but, yah, that's definitely interesting. I just remember back in they day when the glitch was utilized in the beginning, WW had not punished people for it, and EA certainly did not, and XWIS certainly doesn't. But I see your point.

#49 Favor

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 05:28 AM

so u can place ton over cliff but nothing else?

#50 CCHyper

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 01:13 PM

Well, im really getting lost with all this. So we will do this.

Whats the two most annoying bugs that have to be fixed? Ill try my best to see if i can fix them.


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