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Poll: Most used fation in YR QM

Near end of month when points count especially, be honest.

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#1 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:51 AM

This is the rough draft, to talk in school terms, If I had to turn it in today this is how it'd be. But you (the community) is here to discuss, proof-read, and feel out any mistakes I possibly made.

I. Maps To Be Eliminated from 'Normal Combat':
1. Anytown, Amerika // ALL
2. Defcon 6 // AvS*
3. Blood Feud // AvS*
4. Deadman's Ridge // AvS

*NOTE: When I say AvS, that means that it is only eliminated in AvS situations, and NOT eliminated in mirrors.

II. Maps to Be Eliminated from Yuri Combat:

1. Hidden Valley
2. Blood Feud
3. Urban Rush
4. Dune Patrol // AvY*
5. Dry Heat // AvY


*NOTE: When I say AvY that means only that should be eliminated, and not SvY, and vice versa.

III. The 'Normal Combat' situation maps to be added:

1. El Dorado // SvS AvA AvS
2. Hail Mary // SvS AvA AvS
3. Happy Trails // SvS AvA AvS
4. Let There Be Fight // SvS AvA
5. Little Piece of dune // SvS AvA
6. Loaded Barrel // SvS AvA AvS
7. Twin Peaks // SvS AvA AvS
8. Breakaway // SvS AvA AvS
10. Killer Instict // SvS AvA AvS
11. Arena // SvS AvA
12. Brink of Disaster // SvS AvA AvS
13. City Under siege // SvS AvA AvS
14. Four Corners // SvS AvA AvS
15. Frostbite // SvS AvA AvS
16. Ground Zero // SvS AvA
17. Head for the Hills // SvS AvA AvS
18. Isle of Oades // SvS AvA AvS
19. Lost Lake // SvS AvA AvS
20. Mount Olympus // SvS AvA AvS
21. Pacific Heights // SvS AvA AvS
22. Rockets Red Glare // SvS AvA AvS
23. Shrapnel Mountain // SvS AvA AvS
24. Sinkhole // SvS
25. Snowballs Chance // SvS AvA AvS
26. Tower of Power // SvS AvA AvS
27. Tsunami // SvS AvA AvS
28. Valley Of Gems // SvS AvA AvS
29. Bering Straight // SvS AvA
30. Bridging the Gap // SvS AvA AvS
31. Malibu Cliffs // SvS AvA AvS
32. Heck Freezes Over // SvS AvA AvS
33. A path Beyond II // SvS AvA AvS
34. Near Ore Far // SvS AvA AvS
35. Offic Tourny Map 4 // SvS AvA AvS
36. Double Trouble // SvS AvA
37. Austin, TX // SvS AvA AvS
38. Sea of isolation // SvS AvA AvS
39. Turfwar // SvS AvA AvS
40. Oceanside // SvS AvA AvS
41. Trailer Park // SvS AvA AvS
42. Army of The Potamac // SvS AvA AvS
43. Downtown, Cityville // SvS AvA AvS
44. East Vs. Best // SvS AvA AvS
45. Arena 33 Forever // SvS AvA AvS
46. Manhattan Mayhem // SvS AvA AvS
47. Invasion Confirmed // SvS AvA AvS


IV. The Maps to be Added to Yuri QM:

1. Happy trails // SvY AvY
2. Head for the Hills // SvY AvY
3. Soverign Land // AvY
4. Brink of disaster // AvY
5. Mt Olympus // AvY
6. Paris revisited // SvY AvY
7. Snowballs chance // SvY AvY
8. Tanyas training grounds // SvY AvY
9. Tower of power // SvY AvY
10. Arena 33 forever // SvY AvY
11. Bridging the gap // SvY AvY
12. Defcon 6 // SvY AvY
13. Malibu cliffs // SvY AvY
14. Heck freezes over // AvY SvY
15. Double trouble // AvY
16. East vs Best // AvY
17. Hail Mary // SvY
18. Downtown, Cityville // AvY SvY
19. Rush Hour // AvY




V. NOTES:

1. In yuri QM, turn supers OFF in AvY situations.

2. The following matchups require SW always on:

1. Isle of War
2. Mayday
3. Death Valley
4. Hammer and Sickle
5. Deadman's Ridge
6. Depth Charge
7. Hidden Valley
8. Alaskan Oil Spill
9. El Dorado
10. Let There Be Fight
11. Loaded Barrel
12. Arena
13. Tsunami
14. Bering Straight
15. Sea Of Isolation
16. Turfwar
17. Pacific Heights
18. Oceanside
19. Lost Lake
20. Invasion Confirmed

3. In yuri qm:

AvY = OFF
SvY = ON
YvY = Stays the same, whatever it was now

SvS AvS = Random (except on those maps)





What do yall think? Im having a hard time adding maps to yuri qm. I am finding out that SvY situations that are fair are near dam impossible to find. AvY is a much more fair level, and I think due to this renovation it will become 100% fair to be an allied player vs. yuri or a yuri player vs yuri.

Please discuss here, keep in mind I need opinions on balance of maps, and yuri situations the most!!

Edited by XXxPrePxX, 05 February 2010 - 05:45 PM.


#2 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:27 AM

No.
All the maps listed should be available for all types of qm games with random super weapons.

#3 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:29 AM

No.
All the maps listed should be available for all types of qm games with random super weapons.

Wrong, we arnt here to talk about this, so please understand that and leave it out of the discussion.

Balance plays a HUGE role in this game, which is why this renovation is here. To Fix the balance of Yuri players, and to make it funner for avs games.

In a way, we did pretty much add every map for normal combat (avs). So that should make you happy. (as we left out maybe like 25 total maps)

Edited by leigz, 26 February 2009 - 03:30 AM.


#4 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:33 AM

Wrong, we arnt here to talk about this, so please understand that and leave it out of the discussion.

What do yall think?


If we aren't here to talk about this then why did you ask what we think? If you or anyone else can't cope against Yuri players then stick to RA2.

#5 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:03 AM

If we aren't here to talk about this then why did you ask what we think? If you or anyone else can't cope against Yuri players then stick to RA2.


You say all maps should be in qm, under your philosophy mt roush more and top of the hill would be in qm. Please understand there is balance issues, with maps, and with countries.

#6 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:08 AM

You say all maps should be in qm, under your philosophy mt roush more and top of the hill would be in qm. Please understand there is balance issues, with maps, and with countries.

Are either of those listed in your first post? I couldn't see them. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, when I said "All the maps listed should be available", I meant listed in your first post. There are balance issues with most maps. What do you want, symetrical maps?

To moan about balance issues is just laughable. In real life your in a war zone, are you really going to tell your opponent that you can't attack me from there because you might gain an advantage. It's how you deal with the no win scenario that defines a good player.

Edited by Kundalini, 26 February 2009 - 07:16 AM.


#7 riz

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:38 AM

Hands up right away, I am not a YR player, but i would like to help prep and you guys out with this. So keep it constructive. If ye like somthing then say so and why, if ye don't like something then say so and why. If ye don't care either way, put that input in too, and why

I think it would also be beneficial if you were to state your prefered faction as you post so that if one faction is being out numbered that can also be taken into consideration.

What do yall think? Im having a hard time adding maps to yuri qm. I am finding out that SvY situations that are fair are near dam impossible to find. AvY is a much more fair level, and I think due to this renovation it will become 100% fair to be an allied player vs. yuri or a yuri player vs yuri.


The only reason i have ever known a decent player to purposely pick yuri was becuase they thought it would be an easier win. In dajoint we used to say RMGR (real men go random) but that doesn't work in yr when theres a majorly op faction.

I'm looking through your lists and recommendations of match ups, but i am not seing it clearly explained why these below should be removed from YvY. Is it spot determines who wins, because of bugs or is it just a frustrting turtle game? Please enlighten me.

1. Hidden Valley
2. Blood Feud
3. Urban Rush
4. Dune Patrol // AvY*
5. Dry Heat
6. Dustbowl

If SvS and SvA are the prefered game and that list above is the only maps out of the tons that would be removed for YvY then what about making it that if you choose yuri, or get assigned yuri, you can only be matched versus another yuri player on any map apart from those named above. This way i think those that love to play yuri, and wanna play every map, still get to do so, but always start in a level playing field. Map knowledge, better bo's and skill levels should seperate the men from the boys. Currently,recently,forever we've had new players beating top players based on unfair conditions. It takesa much a less skilled Yuri player to beat any higher Allied or Sov player.



1. In yuri QM, turn supers OFF in AvY situations.


I know how frsutating YR can be with supers on, how it can be rush to IC etc etc, but, i think this is a majorly integral part of the game not knowing if supers are on or off before startiing the game. If you already know they are off, your not teching as quickly, other guy might not know the map well enough to know this so he tries to rush to IC to find he's screwed.... It's a fun legacy of RA2/YR QM. Do you rush to tech to find ye cant build supers or do you hold off teching and try n outtank/outfodder/outsplit to find he has 9 ic'd rhino's base trading ye.

Needs more discussion i think :)

My personal opinion is eliminate AvY & SvY and make supers random completely. Only remove maps that have a major unfair advantage depending on position or have bugs that can lose ye the game, leave the rest.

To moan about balance issues is just laughable. In real life your in a war zone, are you really going to tell your opponent that you can't attack me from there because you might gain an advantage. It's how you deal with the no win scenario that defines a good player.


In C&C life all players start off on a level playing field, then depending on map, supers, positions & factions the game can be decided before it has even begun (not always favouring the best player but the player who got the best faction for the best spot.

Technically there shouldn't be "a no win situation" when you both start off with one MCV!

What defines a good player is click speed, hotkeys, groups n bookmarks, waypoints and being able to adapt to virtually evertthing thats thrown at them, repairing units, protecting elites etc etc Which can't happen in these "no win situations" that you find yourself in from time to time against Yuri or just because you got the worst spot.

I meant listed in your first post. There are balance issues with most maps. What do you want, symetrical maps?


gain, click speed etc is going to give the better player a more even chance of getting impportant structures. No1's expecting symetrical but at least a chance based on skill not luck.


WOL gave bail time, XWIS doesn't. Thats a factor too. Had the balance of the YR maps and teams been more even across the board these renovations wouldn't really be needed but bail time would ruin whats left of yr qm imho.

#8 thomas338

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:48 AM

No.
All the maps listed should be available for all types of qm games with random super weapons.

why shouldn't we try to ballance the game a bit?

lemme gues, becausse you're a yuri player.
if you were a sov or an allied player your opinion would matter for me, but now you seem just a lame yuri player who
only wants to keep his advantages in qm.

IV. The Maps to be Added to Yuri QM:

3. Pinch point // SvY

Pinch point is like the ultimate camp map for yuri?

A yuri player can just sit there on his hill, build some bunkers, and be almost unbeatable i think




13. Arena 33 forever // SvY AvY

don't like this one either, there are too many trees.
i know that yuri probably won't get as many oils as a sov or allied player. but a decent yuri player will probably get atleast 5 oils, wich is enough for them
to tech just as fast, or faster, as a soviet or allied player can. so i think the disadvantage they have with the oils is much smaller than the advantage the trees give them.

Edited by thomas338, 26 February 2009 - 01:55 PM.


#9 SovForce1

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:54 AM

IV. The Maps to be Added to Yuri QM:

3. Pinch point // SvY

wtf? unfair ?

I. Maps To Be Eliminated from 'Normal Combat':
1. Anytown, Amerika // ALL
2. Defcon 6 // AvS*
3. Dune Patrol // AvS*
4. Blood Feud // AvS*

5. Deadman's Ridge // AvS

if u cant play allied on small maps vs sovs stop playing as allied soon as u read this ? i for 1 and many other gud players find dp and bf fair avs so no to that sir, iam not saying this becuz iam a sov player. but becuz i can play allied on those maps 2.

III. The 'Normal Combat' situation maps to be added:

1. El Dorado // SvS AvA AvS
2. Hail Mary // SvS AvA AvS
3. Happy Trails // SvS AvA AvS
4. Let There Be Fight // SvS AvA
5. Little Piece of dune // SvS AvA
6. Loaded Barrel // SvS AvA AvS
7. Twin Peaks // SvS AvA AvS
8. Breakaway // SvS AvA AvS
9. Canyon Fodder // SvS AvA AvS
10. Killer Instict // SvS AvA AvS
11. Arena // SvS AvA
12. Brink of Disaster // SvS AvA AvS
13. City Under siege // SvS AvA AvS
14. Four Corners // SvS AvA AvS
15. Frostbite // SvS AvA AvS
16. Ground Zero // SvS AvA
17. Head for the Hills // SvS AvA AvS
18. Isle of Oades // SvS AvA AvS
19. Lost Lake // SvS AvA AvS
20. Mount Olympus // SvS AvA AvS
21. Pacific Heights // SvS AvA AvS
22. Rockets Red Glare // SvS AvA AvS
23. Shrapnel Mountain // SvS AvA AvS
24. Sinkhole // SvS
25. Snowballs Chance // SvS AvA AvS
26. Tower of Power // SvS AvA AvS
27. Tsunami // SvS AvA AvS
28. Valley Of Gems // SvS AvA AvS
29. Bering Straight // SvS AvA
30. Bridging the Gap // SvS AvA AvS
31. Malibu Cliffs // SvS AvA AvS
32. Heck Freezes Over // SvS AvA AvS
33. A path Beyond II // SvS AvA AvS
34. Near Ore Far // SvS AvA AvS
35. Offic Tourny Map 4 // SvS AvA AvS
36. Double Trouble // SvS AvA AvS
37. Austin, TX // SvS AvA AvS
38. Sea of isolation // SvS AvA AvS
39. Turfwar // SvS AvA AvS
40. Oceanside // SvS AvA AvS
41. Trailer Park // SvS AvA AvS
42. Army of The Potamac // SvS AvA AvS
43. Downtown, Cityville // SvS AvA AvS

<3 can they really add that many maps ? if not just add the bold 1s for sure :D

IV. The Maps to be Added to Yuri QM:

1. Happy trails // SvY AvY
2. Head for the Hills // SvY AvY
3. Pinch point // SvY
4. Soverign Land // AvY
5. Cold War // SvY AvY this map shud be taken out period, right side gets slapt 9 outa 10 times u lost 3 oils for nothing.
6. Brink of disaster // AvY
7. Lost lake // AvY SvY
8. Mt Olympus // AvY unfair
9. Paris revisited // SvY AvY
10. Snowballs chance // SvY AvY
11. Tanyas training grounds // SvY AvY
12. Tower of power // SvY AvY
13. Arena 33 forever // SvY AvY
14. Bridging the gap // SvY AvY
15. Defcon 6 // SvY AvY
16. Malibu cliffs // SvY AvY
17. Heck freezes over // AvY SvY
18. Double trouble // AvY
19. East vs Best // AvY

Edited by SovForce1, 26 February 2009 - 11:06 AM.


#10 kickyou73

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 12:35 PM

Maybe the admins would allow a testing month where we could play some of these and see if they work?

Not sure removing supers will help anyone. Supers never won me a game against a good allied but I have seen the chrono cause me big problems. Supers do help stop any side from camping and most people complain Yuri is most unbalanced when camping behind bunkers etc. There are very few Yuri players still playing who can trouble the large amount of pro allied players on the magority of the current maps let alone on new maps with no supers. In fact if you look through the stats of the top 10 and the games vs Yuri there are hardly any losses. There is no big Yuri threat anymore....
..
Please get back to discussing maps not nerfing Yuri.

Edited by kickyou73, 26 February 2009 - 12:36 PM.


#11 thomas338

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 01:46 PM

just look at robin, when he was sovs he was top 30 - top 20. he switches to yuri and bam, top 10.
btw, it's always the yuri players who say that yuri isn't overpowered.

Edited by thomas338, 26 February 2009 - 02:03 PM.


#12 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:06 PM

Are either of those listed in your first post? I couldn't see them. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, when I said "All the maps listed should be available", I meant listed in your first post. There are balance issues with most maps. What do you want, symetrical maps?


Ok, I misread it in a way, and now I understand what your saying. So thanks for agreeing, and we must filter through the balance issues.

If SvS and SvA are the prefered game and that list above is the only maps out of the tons that would be removed for YvY then what about making it that if you choose yuri, or get assigned yuri, you can only be matched versus another yuri player on any map apart from those named above. This way i think those that love to play yuri, and wanna play every map, still get to do so, but always start in a level playing field. Map knowledge, better bo's and skill levels should seperate the men from the boys. Currently,recently,forever we've had new players beating top players based on unfair conditions. It takesa much a less skilled Yuri player to beat any higher Allied or Sov player.


Sorry I didnt make it as clear, but I meant those to be eliminated from AvY and SvY.

I know how frsutating YR can be with supers on, how it can be rush to IC etc etc, but, i think this is a majorly integral part of the game not knowing if supers are on or off before startiing the game. If you already know they are off, your not teching as quickly, other guy might not know the map well enough to know this so he tries to rush to IC to find he's screwed.... It's a fun legacy of RA2/YR QM. Do you rush to tech to find ye cant build supers or do you hold off teching and try n outtank/outfodder/outsplit to find he has 9 ic'd rhino's base trading ye.


Well I agree with that, but yuri is a different animal. Facing yuri you NEED to know what your doing. Imagine having random supers and being a sov player, going tech only to find no IC vs. the camping yuri. I think supers should be known for AvY, or SvY, everything else i Love random for.

My personal opinion is eliminate AvY & SvY and make supers random completely. Only remove maps that have a major unfair advantage depending on position or have bugs that can lose ye the game, leave the rest.


I wonder how well that would go over :o. I dont think any yuri player would be able to get a game. But hell, Id be down for it.

Pinch point is like the ultimate camp map for yuri?

A yuri player can just sit there on his hill, build some bunkers, and be almost unbeatable i think


110% agree, was NOT thinking when I said that, lool, pinch point is eliminated.


if u cant play allied on small maps vs sovs stop playing as allied soon as u read this ? i for 1 and many other gud players find dp and bf fair avs so no to that sir, iam not saying this becuz iam a sov player. but becuz i can play allied on those maps 2.


It's no doubt possible, but why have those 2 small maps that alot of allieds dread in qm, when you can have the 65 other maps? You know what I mean?

<3 can they really add that many maps ? if not just add the bold 1s for sure biggrin.gif


Yes :).

Supers do help stop any side from camping and most people complain Yuri is most unbalanced when camping behind bunkers etc.


Id have to argue the complete opposite. I wish more yuri players would camp vs. me withOUT the genetic mutator. You must understand that: The genetic mutator is the most pwoerful super weapon in the game. IT allows you to not need miners, and just need cloning vats / grinders. Unlimited money / unlimed camping ability.

There are very few Yuri players still playing who can trouble the large amount of pro allied players on the magority of the current maps let alone on new maps with no supers. In fact if you look through the stats of the top 10 and the games vs Yuri there are hardly any losses. There is no big Yuri threat anymore....


You put a newb against a pro, the pro should win, overcoming the balance issues. You put a pro yuri vs a pro allieds, and on these current maps the allieds would be toast. Why do we want to make the allied players have to play 100% so hard to beat an average yuri player like it is today.

Edited by leigz, 26 February 2009 - 02:09 PM.


#13 kickyou73

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:44 PM

You put a newb against a pro, the pro should win, overcoming the balance issues. You put a pro yuri vs a pro allieds, and on these current maps the allieds would be toast. Why do we want to make the allied players have to play 100% so hard to beat an average yuri player like it is today.
[/quote]

The stats don't support this. The best Yuri player was losing consistently to the best allied player and if you go with the general consensus the Yuri player was also map hacking. Playing vs yuri is nothing like playing against sovs or other allies and it requires a different set of skills and tactics. We have removed all water maps, are now talking about removing all small maps and know you want to remove Yuri's supers? Whats next do you want us to close one eye while we play or stand on one leg or something?

Would it not be easier just to play ra2 and never have to deal with yuri or better still get some tips from the players that do know how to beat him. I am an average Yuri player but someone like Hosae who is probably not one of the top allies beats me most games because he understands Yuri's weaknesses.

#14 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:57 PM

The stats don't support this. The best Yuri player was losing consistently to the best allied player and if you go with the general consensus the Yuri player was also map hacking. Playing vs yuri is nothing like playing against sovs or other allies and it requires a different set of skills and tactics. We have removed all water maps, are now talking about removing all small maps and know you want to remove Yuri's supers? Whats next do you want us to close one eye while we play or stand on one leg or something?


Id have to argue that there hasnt been a "top yuri" player in some time. Yes sunny was excellent with yuri, but how many rank 1's did he achieve? Many. I assume your talking about sunny losing to adam, well adam is a unique player in his own right. Ill leave it at that.

Now I will say yuri vs. allied is alot more FAIR then yuri vs. soviets.

We have removed all water maps, are now talking about removing all small maps and know you want to remove Yuri's supers? Whats next do you want us to close one eye while we play or stand on one leg or something?


The thin about yuri is its the trickiest of all to equalize. It's damn near impossible. You CANT put allies on a small map vs. yuri like blood/dune and expect balance.

There's a reason why all water maps were removed in first place - boomer rush is 100x more overpowered then anything in game. Now in current renovation, sov land, cold war, lost lake, and malibu cliffs all have water, but the boomer rush will not work on those maps (other then lost lake which will be hell with boomers).

Soviets will still be able to play yuri on dune.

you want to remove Yuri's supers?


Yes, its just another imbalance in the game. Yuris supers are by far the best in game. The soviets iron curtain is the only thing that matches them. Chronosphere is very useless, and the 'storm is the worst of the three. It's just unfair in AvY games to put supers on, just gives yuri players another one of the 100 advantages they have ;).

Would it not be easier just to play ra2 and never have to deal with yuri or better still get some tips from the players that do know how to beat him. I am an average Yuri player but someone like Hosae who is probably not one of the top allies beats me most games because he understands Yuri's weaknesses.


Well you said it yourself, your an average yuri player. It's time for you to earn your ranks ;).

And maybe it would be easier to just do Riz's idea:

My personal opinion is eliminate AvY & SvY and make supers random completely. Only remove maps that have a major unfair advantage depending on position or have bugs that can lose ye the game, leave the rest.



#15 reano

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:18 PM

I am going to comment from a Yuri vs Allied/Sov and what can be done to help.

The only map that 100% should be moved for allied vs Yuri is Hidden Valley. I cannot remember the last time I lost on that against any level allied (espeicially ones that don't map)...... fullstop.

Do not bring pinch-point in as a map of Yuri vs a/s. Eventually when I get my camping right you would never beat me on there as those fractions. So don't bring that in. I already get enough crying don't need any more.

Supers have to be on for Yuri vs allied on bigger maps (If you don't think so then sorry your just not a good allied player). I play loads of good allied and they have one of their best chances there. I am willing though to concede to test random supers if Hidden is kept because I believe that a good Allied vs a good Yuri would have the advantage in a no supers situation on large maps.

removing blood fued and dp for avs is good removing it vs yuri is mad. Allied and Sov's (who are good) can tackle Yuri on these maps (hard bit can be done). Allied vs Sov on Urban should stay (learn to use france???? Allied not just america or Korea.....)

Thats all. I think Kickyou makes a good point. Test it out.

In summary cause I can't read those long posts (but I add my own)

1) Get rid of Hidden for allied vs yuri
2) Do not bring in Pinch point (Yva/s)
3) 'Test' random supers vs Yuri but I think the balance situation on large maps would change to favour allied

And last but not least If you cannot beat yuri on certain maps you ever asked them to help? PizzaGuru asked me and I showed him a few techniques. He used to cry to me after every loss... Not anymore. I still beat him but he gets more wins too now.

Makes me laugh when a person builds ten tanks and rushes me only for me to send them into the air and they cry... learn that those tactics (on their own) do not work vs Yuri......

#16 kickyou73

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 03:25 PM

Well you said it yourself, your an average yuri player. It's time for you to earn your ranks ;).

Like I said pro allied > pro yuri, average allies > average yuri and most likely newb allies > newb yuri

I still think your prejudice and your problem is that as a pro you lose from time to time to a yuri player, but you have never played as yuri vs a good allies. It is much harder than you think and all the advantages you think yuri has honestly will not count for much when the mirages and prisms rape your army and your disks get owned by bf.

It is a shame that you turned a cool idea about new maps into a vendeta against yuri, we only want to be your friends :)

#17 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:30 PM

why shouldn't we try to ballance the game a bit?

lemme gues, becausse you're a yuri player.
if you were a sov or an allied player your opinion would matter for me, but now you seem just a lame yuri player who
only wants to keep his advantages in qm.

Lol, I have an advantage in qm, you've obviously never played me or you wouldn't be saying that. And for your information I play as soviet and allied, I just have seperate nicks for them. I even play random faction.

#18 thomas338

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:41 PM

and do you enjoy being beaten by worse players who use yuri on your sov nick?

#19 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 04:49 PM

There are worse players??? :ohmy:

Is that what this is about though. The so called "best" players are being out manouvered by lesser players who are playing as Yuri so all they do is sit on the forums crying about Yuri being overpowered and creating BS topics like this. Well that's life, new players come along with better ideas on how to win. Learn to take a defeat and move on. Be grateful Yuri doesn't get an APC.

Edited by Kundalini, 26 February 2009 - 05:58 PM.


#20 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:13 PM

First off, i'd like to say thank you for everyones comments.

Second, I'd like to address this statement:

It is a shame that you turned a cool idea about new maps into a vendeta against yuri, we only want to be your friends smile.gif


The whole idea of this "cool" idea, was 2 major points.

1. Was to add new maps to the avs ava svs warfare for fun. I managed to get a list of 40ish that accomplish that task.
2. To make yuri playable again, and to give it a level of fun. Yuri now is what I call maps of doom. You get yuri, you have the same boring, stale, tactics on these maps.

That's where the hard part comes in. Picking maps that are ok to play, and are fun.

I think the thing with yuri players is, they enjoy having this advantage much, that when their opposed to a fair level playing field, they try to avoid it. Now im not saying you (kick/reano) really 'cry' or want an advantage. What im saying is you've gotten so used to the advantages at hand. These maps of doom you have been playing on for the past year(s) have gotten you so used to a style of yuri play.

What I am trying to do with this renovation is turn your style of play, upside down. I WANT to make you HAVE to come up with different rushes (when was the last time a yuri player rushed??), I want yuri to be just like soviets and allieds in where you have to attack early and apply pressure, etc. etc.

With the maps I selected I think it certainly evens it out a bit, and puts alot more fun into it.


With that being said, I still do think yuri has an advantage on those maps: Let me point out a few specific notes:

1. Heck freezes - How many yuri players are gonna move to middle of map and it will cause hard as hell games? But let me tell u this, id rather a yuri move to midle of heck, then get a yuri on blood or dune. At least I have a chance at that.
2. Head for the hills and Malibu cliffs i think are GREAT for all factions. These are picture pefect maps IMO facing a yuri or being a yuri. Theres no balance issues here.
3. Mt Olympus is going to be in favor of yuri, but only slightly. Think of it as replacing dry heat.

I could go on and on, but what im saying is, these maps are not KILLING yuri, their switching your style, making you think again, making you win with skill.

I do not mean to offend you, but you (kick) dont deserve to be in the top 20. You are there solely on yuri. (once again no disrespect)

I want you to earn your rank.

Now you complain about supers being turned off in AvY, My response to that is just to kill the enemy early. Its kinda funny how it goes:

You want long game vs sov
Short vs allied

Soviets want short vs yuri, short vs allied
allieds want long vs yuri long vs soviet

shouldnt it all kinda corelate together? Isn't that what it's meant to do.

Its the battle of supremacy, allieds goal is the long game, soviets is the short, and yuri is there as the middle man, taking advantage of both teams.


Like I said pro allied > pro yuri, average allies > average yuri and most likely newb allies > newb yuri


I'd have to disagree.

It really depends what your talking about, but i do think in the current renovation a pro allied = a pro yuri. Their balanced. I still think a pro yuri should never lose to a pro sov, but thats my opinion.

but you have never played as yuri vs a good allies. It is much harder than you think and all the advantages you think yuri has honestly will not count for much when the mirages and prisms rape your army and your disks get owned by bf.


I agree with this!! Like I said before, yuri has advantage short game vs allieds, but if u let it live long u will die. What supers do is gives yuri the advantage ALLL game, and thats just not fair. So to be fair, just kill the allied early, hard concept to grasp as a yuri player, but youll need to change your style.

3) 'Test' random supers vs Yuri but I think the balance situation on large maps would change to favour allied


Random SW's in yuri games is completely unacceptable. You must understand the point that:

1. Yuri ALWAYS techs early, its just.. a must. So whether SW's are on or off, wont really matter to them until they find out.
2. It would kill soviets, soviets who tech early in hope for supers to find they dont have any, would be destroyed. Same as vice versa.
3. Allies jsut need supers off, there is no help from supers being on for them.

Is that what this is about though. The so called "best" players are being out manouvered by lesser players who are playing as Yuri so all they do is sit on the forums crying about Yuri being overpowered and creating BS topics like this. Well that's life, new players come along with better ideas on how to win. Learn to take a defeat and move on. Be grateful Yuri doesn't get an APC.


Sorry to break it to you, but in a way, it kinda is. It happens in games all around mate, its the balance issue.

It should be a level playing ground at the begining everytime, I dont see why you cant understand that :S.

crying about Yuri being overpowered and creating BS topics like this.


That's out of line, crying is not the same as constructing. What we are doing here is constructing a way to be able to play vs the yuri players. Currently im forced to bail yuri players due to the extreme advantages. And it's not just me, it's others as well. The community.

and Once again ill state it: It is not about DESTROYING yuri, it is about making yuri playable. I want to have games were my yuri opponent is more skilled then me, plays better, and deservedly wins. But I have not had one of thsoe games since 3 years ago due to the current qm setup. At least if a yuri beats me on Malibu it will be because he out played me, not sat in his base with genetic mutator and unlimited money.

#21 Kundalini

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:19 PM

Ok, what if you made all qm's unholy alliance? That would surely level the playing field as each player would have access to the same units (with the exception of country specific units).

#22 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:20 PM

Ok, what if you made all qm's unholy alliance? That would surely level the playing field as each player would have access to the same units (with the exception of country specific units).


your 100% correct. Mirror matches are always equal unless the map is an issue. However, that is not what the game is for (3 mcv's) lol. But yes, you are correct.

#23 reano

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:22 PM

I secretly think this is a Yuri bash topic unfortunately. Sorry Prep :cool: Just saying it as I see it but good luck with the changes. I've expressed where I as a Yuri player see the advantages (Hidden Valley and Pinch point), if you had mastered the allied on the right maps you would also see my point but I guess you just haven't yet. I frequently play as allied against Yuri and know the advantages and use them to good effect and my allied is complete noob. Most won't increase the dwindling activity anyhow..... C ya laterz

Edited by reano, 26 February 2009 - 06:24 PM.


#24 XXxPrePxX

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:27 PM

I secretly think this is a Yuri bash topic unfortunately. Sorry Prep cool.gif Just saying it as I see it but good luck with the changes. I've expressed where I as a Yuri player see the advantages (Hidden Valley and Pinch point), if you had mastered the allied on the right maps you would also see my point but I guess you just haven't yet. I frequently play as allied against Yuri and know the advantages and use them to good effect and my allied is complete noob. Most won't increase the dwindling activity anyhow..... C ya laterz


Appreciate your opinion Reano, and im sorry oyu feel that way, but in the long run, it will mean more games for you (less bailers), more fun for you (new maps, new situations), and just overall GG's.

Pinch and hidden will not be in yuri qm.

And Allieds > yuri late game. Yuri > allieds early game. THAT is how it should be, not how it is now where its yuri > allieds all game.

#25 thomas338

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:29 PM

I've expressed where I as a Yuri player see the advantages (Hidden Valley and Pinch point), if you had mastered the allied on the right maps you would also see my point but I guess you just haven't yet. I frequently play as allied against Yuri and know the advantages and use them to good effect and my allied is complete noob.

i don't know about yuri vs allied, because i don't play allied in qm, but you've got to agree that soviets are underpowered against yuri :p


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