Whats your technique? Do you move them in battle, let them sit in a clump, only move fodder? Whats your technique to own an opponent with near equal number of tanks and come out on top?
Tank Control
Started by lhatekids, Nov 15 2003 08:58 AM
55 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 15 November 2003 - 09:09 AM
keep ur healthier tanks in front for a start - there are a number of techniques which avoid u having to individually select and move em. and i try to make the most of ANY opportunity to have more of my tanks attacking less of his tanks. this tends to get me into alotta **** 50% of the time, but once ive polished up a bit, it should work out 
#3
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 11:20 AM
If they are all hitting the enemy, or as many as possible I generally remain stationery - moving fodder, but if I can gain advantage with hill etc. I will move them.
#4
Posted 15 November 2003 - 01:47 PM
read and learn
keep your tanks close so they cant be picked off, try to make them a square and make sure they move all together. if they have the same amount of tanks and they attack move yours at a perpendicular direction to their tanks (if ur tanks are south and his are north and he attacks, move your tanks to the east or west). this way all your tanks in range will be firing but theirs will miss some becuase your tanks are moving. don't click to move too far away because if you do that tanks break formation, use small movements.
if you want to use fodder you have to remember the only thing they are meant to do is to waste enemy fire on them rather than on your tanks so you need to keep the fodder closer to their tanks than yours are so that their tanks will automatically target the fodder. put cons in flak tracks so that you can have fast fodder, also i find cos flaks are faster than rhinos you can have them maybe 30 squares away and click, and the fodder comes in perfectly just before the tanks, then when th flaks die their rhinos will target the conscripts, and by then their rhinos will be in range of yours.
with regards to tank splits, do them whenever you have enough tanks, but remember don't take 4 tanks off to the back of their base if it leaves you outnumberes 4 to 8 because they will just go straight for your tanks and then to your base first, you usually should wait until you have lots of tanks but early splits are great if they can't see that you're doing them, which is why antiscouting is so important. if they cant see your tanks then send 4 tanks round the side where you think they will have shroud to kill their miners, then retreat before you lose any tanks. keep trying this, miners and radar are the best targets because miners are the key to a good economy, and if you have no radar seeing another attack is a lot harder.
sometimes its good to keep tanks not moving, or just click one spot away if they are in a solid formation, but if you click miles away some tanks go a long way rouind and they create gaps and spread your tanks out, now their tanks can use those gaps (cos ur tanks are concentrated over a larger space, and their over a smaller space, their tanks can get close and get more shots on your tanks than yours on theirs, which means you lose more tanks than them).
also if you keep your tanks moveing perpendicular to their the first few tanks wont die, theyll stay alive (possible in the red) to shoot again when you move past again cos when they go out of range the enemy tanks retarget a new healthy tank, but if they arent moving then ur tank would have to die before the tank would retarget. of course two tanks in red are better than one in yellow in terms of large group tank control, because (a) two can deliver twice the fire and ( they are unlikely to be shot because of so much other tank fodder, unless of course the enemy specifically targets yourr tank, but that wastes a lot of ammo cos all of his tanks would be doing it, and just telling one to would waste time (if you think seconds mean everything, and if you cnage direction while he is about to tell one tank to attack ur red one, you have a alrge advantage for a few seconds).
oh other good fodder things are miners on small pinch point maps (large ones would mean they can outmanouver you cos of miner's slow speed), like LBL i always use my war miners as fodder because they can take loads of punishment and they are also good against conscripts, and sometimes if nessecary desolators. they can be close behind tanks, but their speed can mean you have to do some micro to keep them in the right place, ie stopping your tanks from overtaking them when you have them all selected at once. i'd advise calling your miners group 1 and tanks group 2, it helps sometimes. sometimes i find miners are a bit stupid, like microsoft word it seems ww tried to make them clever but this gets annoying because sometimes when i try to move miners towards enemy tanks they turn the oopposite dirrection and go away from them, possible cos the intelligent people at ww thought miners would only be used for mining, and therefore they should be wired to avoid tanks. keep this in mind.
desolators are another good fodder unit, like the miner they are slow but for some reason slow infantry on red alert have always been hard to kill with explosive tank shells (?!?!), so they are good against rhinos. done deploy unless you know what you're doing because the chances are youll fry your own tanks just as much, if not more, as theirs. their rad-cannon is effective in large numbers against tanks (id say about 10 could take down a grizzly in as many shots as a rhino could), so they aren't strictly fodder alone, which makes them an even better choice against weak tanks. this balances out against the weak tanks being faster, but like i said with miners if you are playing on a pinch point map that speed is close to useless.
dogs are nice early game fodder, they are expensive but they run at about the same speed as tanks so you put them in formation and charge without having to worry too much about microing fodder. try to keep them away from the enemy tanks (a safe distacne) is you can help it because their tanks will squash your dogs. this is another reason the deso is good, it cant be crushed so run some into their tanks and if they dont have drone backup ull mess their formation up.
conscripts are good because they are cheap, if i used them i'd go crazy and probably sell my conyard, think " what the hell", and make as many as i could, but i dont like them because they are weak and not as fast as dogs.
other fodder could be apocs (because they can absord huge amounts of fire... just send 3 of them forward and them follow up with your rhinos... they will more than make up for the loss in rhinos they will cost you if the enemy is a bit slow and doesnt realise what ur planning on doing-usually people go "apocs LOL" when i make some but they do pay off if you can use their power properly).
never use tesla troopers unless you're very desperate, they suck, and if you're that desperate, chances are they are too bad to save you.
some more hints when you're doing tank splits:
- dont make it obvious : make the tanks hug the walls because thats the least likely place theyve scouted
- scout VERY WELL :im talking 5 or maybe 6 dogs on heck so you can see what their tanks are doing. you should be able to convert their tanks moving to them saying "i can see your tanks sneaking there, go away".
- antiscout very well : use some dogs to run miles away to scout far pinch points (pinch points are the most important places to scout, but make sure you can see about 95% of the map), and keep some dogs close to home to make sure there is NO shroud in your area. build a drone if you've done a good job in killing their dogs to keep the good work up, but if you know their dog has got through don't bother. try to remember where their dog ran and where they still might not be able to see.
- try double splits. if you have enough tanks, and you're confident their priority is to defend rather than take advantage of ur bad base defending tank odds (u could be 5:20 but if you antiscout well they'll never know... basically youre getting free tanks), then take say 5 tanks one way and 5 the other. they will tell you which one they want to be the diversion and which one they want to kill all their miners (!) by the way they move their tanks. retreat the group that is being chased and go for it with the other group, probably coming from a different angle.
- watch their tanks a lot : ive said it before but they tell you so much about whats going on in their heads
keep your tanks close so they cant be picked off, try to make them a square and make sure they move all together. if they have the same amount of tanks and they attack move yours at a perpendicular direction to their tanks (if ur tanks are south and his are north and he attacks, move your tanks to the east or west). this way all your tanks in range will be firing but theirs will miss some becuase your tanks are moving. don't click to move too far away because if you do that tanks break formation, use small movements.
if you want to use fodder you have to remember the only thing they are meant to do is to waste enemy fire on them rather than on your tanks so you need to keep the fodder closer to their tanks than yours are so that their tanks will automatically target the fodder. put cons in flak tracks so that you can have fast fodder, also i find cos flaks are faster than rhinos you can have them maybe 30 squares away and click, and the fodder comes in perfectly just before the tanks, then when th flaks die their rhinos will target the conscripts, and by then their rhinos will be in range of yours.
with regards to tank splits, do them whenever you have enough tanks, but remember don't take 4 tanks off to the back of their base if it leaves you outnumberes 4 to 8 because they will just go straight for your tanks and then to your base first, you usually should wait until you have lots of tanks but early splits are great if they can't see that you're doing them, which is why antiscouting is so important. if they cant see your tanks then send 4 tanks round the side where you think they will have shroud to kill their miners, then retreat before you lose any tanks. keep trying this, miners and radar are the best targets because miners are the key to a good economy, and if you have no radar seeing another attack is a lot harder.
sometimes its good to keep tanks not moving, or just click one spot away if they are in a solid formation, but if you click miles away some tanks go a long way rouind and they create gaps and spread your tanks out, now their tanks can use those gaps (cos ur tanks are concentrated over a larger space, and their over a smaller space, their tanks can get close and get more shots on your tanks than yours on theirs, which means you lose more tanks than them).
also if you keep your tanks moveing perpendicular to their the first few tanks wont die, theyll stay alive (possible in the red) to shoot again when you move past again cos when they go out of range the enemy tanks retarget a new healthy tank, but if they arent moving then ur tank would have to die before the tank would retarget. of course two tanks in red are better than one in yellow in terms of large group tank control, because (a) two can deliver twice the fire and ( they are unlikely to be shot because of so much other tank fodder, unless of course the enemy specifically targets yourr tank, but that wastes a lot of ammo cos all of his tanks would be doing it, and just telling one to would waste time (if you think seconds mean everything, and if you cnage direction while he is about to tell one tank to attack ur red one, you have a alrge advantage for a few seconds).
oh other good fodder things are miners on small pinch point maps (large ones would mean they can outmanouver you cos of miner's slow speed), like LBL i always use my war miners as fodder because they can take loads of punishment and they are also good against conscripts, and sometimes if nessecary desolators. they can be close behind tanks, but their speed can mean you have to do some micro to keep them in the right place, ie stopping your tanks from overtaking them when you have them all selected at once. i'd advise calling your miners group 1 and tanks group 2, it helps sometimes. sometimes i find miners are a bit stupid, like microsoft word it seems ww tried to make them clever but this gets annoying because sometimes when i try to move miners towards enemy tanks they turn the oopposite dirrection and go away from them, possible cos the intelligent people at ww thought miners would only be used for mining, and therefore they should be wired to avoid tanks. keep this in mind.
desolators are another good fodder unit, like the miner they are slow but for some reason slow infantry on red alert have always been hard to kill with explosive tank shells (?!?!), so they are good against rhinos. done deploy unless you know what you're doing because the chances are youll fry your own tanks just as much, if not more, as theirs. their rad-cannon is effective in large numbers against tanks (id say about 10 could take down a grizzly in as many shots as a rhino could), so they aren't strictly fodder alone, which makes them an even better choice against weak tanks. this balances out against the weak tanks being faster, but like i said with miners if you are playing on a pinch point map that speed is close to useless.
dogs are nice early game fodder, they are expensive but they run at about the same speed as tanks so you put them in formation and charge without having to worry too much about microing fodder. try to keep them away from the enemy tanks (a safe distacne) is you can help it because their tanks will squash your dogs. this is another reason the deso is good, it cant be crushed so run some into their tanks and if they dont have drone backup ull mess their formation up.
conscripts are good because they are cheap, if i used them i'd go crazy and probably sell my conyard, think " what the hell", and make as many as i could, but i dont like them because they are weak and not as fast as dogs.
other fodder could be apocs (because they can absord huge amounts of fire... just send 3 of them forward and them follow up with your rhinos... they will more than make up for the loss in rhinos they will cost you if the enemy is a bit slow and doesnt realise what ur planning on doing-usually people go "apocs LOL" when i make some but they do pay off if you can use their power properly).
never use tesla troopers unless you're very desperate, they suck, and if you're that desperate, chances are they are too bad to save you.
some more hints when you're doing tank splits:
- dont make it obvious : make the tanks hug the walls because thats the least likely place theyve scouted
- scout VERY WELL :im talking 5 or maybe 6 dogs on heck so you can see what their tanks are doing. you should be able to convert their tanks moving to them saying "i can see your tanks sneaking there, go away".
- antiscout very well : use some dogs to run miles away to scout far pinch points (pinch points are the most important places to scout, but make sure you can see about 95% of the map), and keep some dogs close to home to make sure there is NO shroud in your area. build a drone if you've done a good job in killing their dogs to keep the good work up, but if you know their dog has got through don't bother. try to remember where their dog ran and where they still might not be able to see.
- try double splits. if you have enough tanks, and you're confident their priority is to defend rather than take advantage of ur bad base defending tank odds (u could be 5:20 but if you antiscout well they'll never know... basically youre getting free tanks), then take say 5 tanks one way and 5 the other. they will tell you which one they want to be the diversion and which one they want to kill all their miners (!) by the way they move their tanks. retreat the group that is being chased and go for it with the other group, probably coming from a different angle.
- watch their tanks a lot : ive said it before but they tell you so much about whats going on in their heads
#5
Posted 15 November 2003 - 03:57 PM
The principle is somewhat the same as crossing the "T" in naval combat, maneuvering to a position in which to put more of your guns to bare on your opponent than he can on you. In a battle with equal number of tanks, the fellow who can do this has a great advantage. The optimum situation is when the enemy attacks you single file while u wait in an arc formation a few tanks deep. Alas, like the actual crossing of the "T" in naval warfare, this situation doesn't occur fequently( the battle of Tsunomi where the Japanese Navy defeated the Russian Fleet at the turn of the last century is a good example), but this principle should be the governing tatic when maneuvering tanks for battle.
I wish I did this well and moreover, all the maneuvering in the world will not help when you are outtank.
Dugout
I wish I did this well and moreover, all the maneuvering in the world will not help when you are outtank.
Dugout
#12
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 09:31 PM
heck will teach you a skewed view of tank control because it benefits rhinos (tight spaces, valleys, hills etc) and hinders grizzlies.
#14
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 10:12 PM
yeah your tank control is great, but you didn't learn it just from heck i bet 
#19
Posted 23 November 2003 - 08:56 PM
keep ur tanks moving about in a compact group, its something your best to experiment with in ffgs to see what TC skills suit you best, i find smoothering their tanks useful, making 2 groups and going round their one group cus the middle tanks will be inactive and all ur tanks will be shootering! keep fodder moving and press x a few times when fodder is selected so they dont get rund ova. use buildings, forrests etc to make ur opponent's tanks break up den pik dder tiny groups off! also use desos to block certain areas so his tanks can only run the way u want them to, it will give him less freedom and sometimes they panick and fodder get DESOD!
#20
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Posted 24 November 2003 - 05:19 AM
yeah problem with trying to do a pincer type thing is that they can move all their tanks and engage with half your force whilst the other is trying to flank them. plus it's hard to do against a group of tanks that isn't stationary or moving linearly.
#23
Posted 29 November 2003 - 06:00 PM
heh...it's hardly ever that easy. but fodder is a good thing to use as well as good tank controlall you have 2 do is ,like in 1 v 1 sen ddogs 2 your opponent with even amount of tanks and then drive you tanks after the dogs and opponent will destroy dogs first instead of tanks
#25
Posted 30 November 2003 - 08:21 AM
yeah in 2 on 2 clan i owned chronoz tankz with 2 deso and 3 doggyz in a flak and 12 rhinoz! he had 15 grizz! and 1 pill but partner got owned on top so i couldnt finish what i started but if they alliez and you make a flak stick fodder in the flak that makez it double the trouble for opponent cuase first flak then 5 thingz if sovs if you outtank em u can make a flak if you want if you outtanked just make dronez and drone every thing he has like 2 tanks 1 drone constantly it makez em mad i was in clan tryout the leader made 20 deso i made 20 drones.. killed all deso then made 8 doggyz and droned bout 4 of his tankz and owned him but he said somethin bout me playing unfair so he didnt let me join but im looking for a tryout to ba! but my tc is foder and moving side to side in a group then droning there **** after i weakind em and at start drone there minerz! funfun
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