i need some serious TC .... i got osome big probs there..
i jsut lost twice to au2... from tc... i need some hlep from it ne1?
TC trainign
Started by
Guest_PreP n LuTheR_*
, Nov 07 2003 03:19 AM
29 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 07 November 2003 - 11:07 AM
keep your tanks close so they cant be picked off, try to make them a square and make sure they move all together. if they have the same amount of tanks and they attack move yours at a perpendicular direction to their tanks (if ur tanks are south and his are north and he attacks, move your tanks to the east or west). this way all your tanks in range will be firing but theirs will miss some becuase your tanks are moving. don't click to move too far away because if you do that tanks break formation, use small movements.
if you want to use fodder you have to remember the only thing they are meant to do is to waste enemy fire on them rather than on your tanks so you need to keep the fodder closer to their tanks than yours are so that their tanks will automatically target the fodder. put cons in flak tracks so that you can have fast fodder, also i find cos flaks are faster than rhinos you can have them maybe 30 squares away and click, and the fodder comes in perfectly just before the tanks, then when th flaks die their rhinos will target the conscripts, and by then their rhinos will be in range of yours.
with regards to tank splits, do them whenever you have enough tanks, but remember don't take 4 tanks off to the back of their base if it leaves you outnumberes 4 to 8 because they will just go straight for your tanks and then to your base first, you usually should wait until you have lots of tanks but early splits are great if they can't see that you're doing them, which is why antiscouting is so important. if they cant see your tanks then send 4 tanks round the side where you think they will have shroud to kill their miners, then retreat before you lose any tanks. keep trying this, miners and radar are the best targets because miners are the key to a good economy, and if you have no radar seeing another attack is a lot harder.
hope this helps i gtg
if you want to use fodder you have to remember the only thing they are meant to do is to waste enemy fire on them rather than on your tanks so you need to keep the fodder closer to their tanks than yours are so that their tanks will automatically target the fodder. put cons in flak tracks so that you can have fast fodder, also i find cos flaks are faster than rhinos you can have them maybe 30 squares away and click, and the fodder comes in perfectly just before the tanks, then when th flaks die their rhinos will target the conscripts, and by then their rhinos will be in range of yours.
with regards to tank splits, do them whenever you have enough tanks, but remember don't take 4 tanks off to the back of their base if it leaves you outnumberes 4 to 8 because they will just go straight for your tanks and then to your base first, you usually should wait until you have lots of tanks but early splits are great if they can't see that you're doing them, which is why antiscouting is so important. if they cant see your tanks then send 4 tanks round the side where you think they will have shroud to kill their miners, then retreat before you lose any tanks. keep trying this, miners and radar are the best targets because miners are the key to a good economy, and if you have no radar seeing another attack is a lot harder.
hope this helps i gtg
#6
Indiana Blee
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Posted 07 November 2003 - 04:00 PM
TC's all just common sense, but you can't learn TC, it comes with practice. I used to have bad TC, but it's been getting better. Just keep playing, and it'll come to you in time...i need some serious TC .... i got osome big probs there..
#7
Posted 07 November 2003 - 05:50 PM
sometimes its good to keep tanks not moving, or just click one spot away if they are in a solid formation, but if you click miles away some tanks go a long way rouind and they create gaps and spread your tanks out, now their tanks can use those gaps (cos ur tanks are concentrated over a larger space, and their over a smaller space, their tanks can get close and get more shots on your tanks than yours on theirs, which means you lose more tanks than them).
also if you keep your tanks moveing perpendicular to their the first few tanks wont die, theyll stay alive (possible in the red) to shoot again when you move past again cos when they go out of range the enemy tanks retarget a new healthy tank, but if they arent moving then ur tank would have to die before the tank would retarget. of course two tanks in red are better than one in yellow in terms of large group tank control, because (a) two can deliver twice the fire and (B) they are unlikely to be shot because of so much other tank fodder, unless of course the enemy specifically targets yourr tank, but that wastes a lot of ammo cos all of his tanks would be doing it, and just telling one to would waste time (if you think seconds mean everything, and if you cnage direction while he is about to tell one tank to attack ur red one, you have a alrge advantage for a few seconds).
oh other good fodder things are miners on small pinch point maps (large ones would mean they can outmanouver you cos of miner's slow speed), like LBL i always use my war miners as fodder because they can take loads of punishment and they are also good against conscripts, and sometimes if nessecary desolators. they can be close behind tanks, but their speed can mean you have to do some micro to keep them in the right place, ie stopping your tanks from overtaking them when you have them all selected at once. i'd advise calling your miners group 1 and tanks group 2, it helps sometimes. sometimes i find miners are a bit stupid, like microsoft word it seems ww tried to make them clever but this gets annoying because sometimes when i try to move miners towards enemy tanks they turn the oopposite dirrection and go away from them, possible cos the intelligent people at ww thought miners would only be used for mining, and therefore they should be wired to avoid tanks. keep this in mind.
desolators are another good fodder unit, like the miner they are slow but for some reason slow infantry on red alert have always been hard to kill with explosive tank shells (?!?!), so they are good against rhinos. done deploy unless you know what you're doing because the chances are youll fry your own tanks just as much, if not more, as theirs. their rad-cannon is effective in large numbers against tanks (id say about 10 could take down a grizzly in as many shots as a rhino could), so they aren't strictly fodder alone, which makes them an even better choice against weak tanks. this balances out against the weak tanks being faster, but like i said with miners if you are playing on a pinch point map that speed is close to useless.
dogs are nice early game fodder, they are expensive but they run at about the same speed as tanks so you put them in formation and charge without having to worry too much about microing fodder. try to keep them away from the enemy tanks (a safe distacne) is you can help it because their tanks will squash your dogs. this is another reason the deso is good, it cant be crushed so run some into their tanks and if they dont have drone backup ull mess their formation up.
conscripts are good because they are cheap, if i used them i'd go crazy and probably sell my conyard, think " what the hell", and make as many as i could, but i dont like them because they are weak and not as fast as dogs.
other fodder could be apocs (because they can absord huge amounts of fire... just send 3 of them forward and them follow up with your rhinos... they will more than make up for the loss in rhinos they will cost you if the enemy is a bit slow and doesnt realise what ur planning on doing-usually people go "apocs LOL" when i make some but they do pay off if you can use their power properly).
never use tesla troopers unless you're very desperate, they suck, and if you're that desperate, chances are they are too bad to save you.
some more hints when you're doing tank splits:
- dont make it obvious : make the tanks hug the walls because thats the least likely place theyve scouted
- scout VERY WELL :im talking 5 or maybe 6 dogs on heck so you can see what their tanks are doing. you should be able to convert their tanks moving to them saying "i can see your tanks sneaking there, go away".
- antiscout very well : use some dogs to run miles away to scout far pinch points (pinch points are the most important places to scout, but make sure you can see about 95% of the map), and keep some dogs close to home to make sure there is NO shroud in your area. build a drone if you've done a good job in killing their dogs to keep the good work up, but if you know their dog has got through don't bother. try to remember where their dog ran and where they still might not be able to see.
- try double splits. if you have enough tanks, and you're confident their priority is to defend rather than take advantage of ur bad base defending tank odds (u could be 5:20 but if you antiscout well they'll never know... basically youre getting free tanks), then take say 5 tanks one way and 5 the other. they will tell you which one they want to be the diversion and which one they want to kill all their miners (!) by the way they move their tanks. retreat the group that is being chased and go for it with the other group, probably coming from a different angle.
- watch their tanks a lot : ive said it before but they tell you so much about whats going on in their heads
again i hope this helps, good luck
also if you keep your tanks moveing perpendicular to their the first few tanks wont die, theyll stay alive (possible in the red) to shoot again when you move past again cos when they go out of range the enemy tanks retarget a new healthy tank, but if they arent moving then ur tank would have to die before the tank would retarget. of course two tanks in red are better than one in yellow in terms of large group tank control, because (a) two can deliver twice the fire and (B) they are unlikely to be shot because of so much other tank fodder, unless of course the enemy specifically targets yourr tank, but that wastes a lot of ammo cos all of his tanks would be doing it, and just telling one to would waste time (if you think seconds mean everything, and if you cnage direction while he is about to tell one tank to attack ur red one, you have a alrge advantage for a few seconds).
oh other good fodder things are miners on small pinch point maps (large ones would mean they can outmanouver you cos of miner's slow speed), like LBL i always use my war miners as fodder because they can take loads of punishment and they are also good against conscripts, and sometimes if nessecary desolators. they can be close behind tanks, but their speed can mean you have to do some micro to keep them in the right place, ie stopping your tanks from overtaking them when you have them all selected at once. i'd advise calling your miners group 1 and tanks group 2, it helps sometimes. sometimes i find miners are a bit stupid, like microsoft word it seems ww tried to make them clever but this gets annoying because sometimes when i try to move miners towards enemy tanks they turn the oopposite dirrection and go away from them, possible cos the intelligent people at ww thought miners would only be used for mining, and therefore they should be wired to avoid tanks. keep this in mind.
desolators are another good fodder unit, like the miner they are slow but for some reason slow infantry on red alert have always been hard to kill with explosive tank shells (?!?!), so they are good against rhinos. done deploy unless you know what you're doing because the chances are youll fry your own tanks just as much, if not more, as theirs. their rad-cannon is effective in large numbers against tanks (id say about 10 could take down a grizzly in as many shots as a rhino could), so they aren't strictly fodder alone, which makes them an even better choice against weak tanks. this balances out against the weak tanks being faster, but like i said with miners if you are playing on a pinch point map that speed is close to useless.
dogs are nice early game fodder, they are expensive but they run at about the same speed as tanks so you put them in formation and charge without having to worry too much about microing fodder. try to keep them away from the enemy tanks (a safe distacne) is you can help it because their tanks will squash your dogs. this is another reason the deso is good, it cant be crushed so run some into their tanks and if they dont have drone backup ull mess their formation up.
conscripts are good because they are cheap, if i used them i'd go crazy and probably sell my conyard, think " what the hell", and make as many as i could, but i dont like them because they are weak and not as fast as dogs.
other fodder could be apocs (because they can absord huge amounts of fire... just send 3 of them forward and them follow up with your rhinos... they will more than make up for the loss in rhinos they will cost you if the enemy is a bit slow and doesnt realise what ur planning on doing-usually people go "apocs LOL" when i make some but they do pay off if you can use their power properly).
never use tesla troopers unless you're very desperate, they suck, and if you're that desperate, chances are they are too bad to save you.
some more hints when you're doing tank splits:
- dont make it obvious : make the tanks hug the walls because thats the least likely place theyve scouted
- scout VERY WELL :im talking 5 or maybe 6 dogs on heck so you can see what their tanks are doing. you should be able to convert their tanks moving to them saying "i can see your tanks sneaking there, go away".
- antiscout very well : use some dogs to run miles away to scout far pinch points (pinch points are the most important places to scout, but make sure you can see about 95% of the map), and keep some dogs close to home to make sure there is NO shroud in your area. build a drone if you've done a good job in killing their dogs to keep the good work up, but if you know their dog has got through don't bother. try to remember where their dog ran and where they still might not be able to see.
- try double splits. if you have enough tanks, and you're confident their priority is to defend rather than take advantage of ur bad base defending tank odds (u could be 5:20 but if you antiscout well they'll never know... basically youre getting free tanks), then take say 5 tanks one way and 5 the other. they will tell you which one they want to be the diversion and which one they want to kill all their miners (!) by the way they move their tanks. retreat the group that is being chased and go for it with the other group, probably coming from a different angle.
- watch their tanks a lot : ive said it before but they tell you so much about whats going on in their heads
again i hope this helps, good luck
#8
Posted 07 November 2003 - 09:56 PM
The basic principal of good TC = get more hits on your guy than he can get on you.
[] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] []
vs
[] [] [] []
[] [] []
[][][][]
The top wins. Simply because they're getting all around more shots off so they get more damage done.
And that in turn explains why fodder actually works. If i have 2 conscripts in there, they're taking more damage which creates a larger number of total shots that it takes to kill his tanks.
[] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] []
vs
[] [] [] []
[] [] []
[][][][]
The top wins. Simply because they're getting all around more shots off so they get more damage done.
And that in turn explains why fodder actually works. If i have 2 conscripts in there, they're taking more damage which creates a larger number of total shots that it takes to kill his tanks.
#9
Posted 07 November 2003 - 10:20 PM
Exactly.The basic principal of good TC = get more hits on your guy than he can get on you.
[] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] []
vs
[] [] [] []
[] [] []
[][][][]
The top wins. Simply because they're getting all around more shots off so they get more damage done.
And that in turn explains why fodder actually works. If i have 2 conscripts in there, they're taking more damage which creates a larger number of total shots that it takes to kill his tanks.
#10
Guest_PreP n LuTheR_*
Guest_PreP n LuTheR_*
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Posted 08 November 2003 - 12:34 AM
Okay thx lots m8s
#12
Posted 08 November 2003 - 12:35 PM
i dont think i can write anymore on the subject!!
ill use chronos way of explaining it
**** -->
**** --> ********
**** --> ********
**** -->
left wins because more of his tanks are firing
***
***
***
| | <--- ***
| | <--- ***
\/ \/ <--- ***
left wins because they are moving perpendicular
to get better, play 2v2s with soviets on heck and watch your enemy. then move onto 1v1s. if you do this you'll improve at tank control naturally
ill use chronos way of explaining it
**** -->
**** --> ********
**** --> ********
**** -->
left wins because more of his tanks are firing
***
***
***
| | <--- ***
| | <--- ***
\/ \/ <--- ***
left wins because they are moving perpendicular
to get better, play 2v2s with soviets on heck and watch your enemy. then move onto 1v1s. if you do this you'll improve at tank control naturally
#13
Guest_avenger1_*
Guest_avenger1_*
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Posted 10 November 2003 - 01:24 AM
niet te vaak klikken
gewoon 1 x links dan weer een x rechts ook als het fout gaat beter even laten lopoen and als je te vaak klikt schieten je tanks nie meer
. en nooit omdraaien
gewoon 1 x links dan weer een x rechts ook als het fout gaat beter even laten lopoen and als je te vaak klikt schieten je tanks nie meer
. en nooit omdraaien
#15
Guest_Piscinex_*
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Posted 11 November 2003 - 12:07 AM
lol i remember that long post on dgnf when i spent ages explaining the perpendicular thing 
. it's actually the most basic facet of tank control.
. it's actually the most basic facet of tank control.
#16
Posted 11 November 2003 - 04:18 AM
i never really got that one - maybe thats why my tc suxlol i remember that long post on dgnf when i spent ages explaining the perpendicular thing
how bout if ur running away (rhino v rhino), anyone have an advantage here?
#17
Posted 11 November 2003 - 09:26 AM
as long as they are in a decent formation and not being trapped/run dopwn the tanks tunning away have an advantage because things on ra2 have stupid aim when they are targeting something that is moving away from it
#19
Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:58 PM
You can get help by reading tips and tricks, but you cant learn it phisically without practicing it and actually playin
the way i learned me and a m8 played each other 1 on 1, each takin bout 5-10 tanks out and practicing
the way i learned me and a m8 played each other 1 on 1, each takin bout 5-10 tanks out and practicing
Edited by DOA, 11 November 2003 - 01:59 PM.
#20
Posted 11 November 2003 - 02:00 PM
if ur running away, the tanks that r chasing you have an advantage, click past the running tanks and u rape about 3-4 tanks, but if ur the running away tanks you screwed, i just turn around and fighti never really got that one - maybe thats why my tc sux
#21
Posted 11 November 2003 - 05:17 PM
if they are out of formation then yes the fleeing tanks will get killed but if theres free space and your tanks are still in a box (eg. you realise ur outtanked so you retreat before anyone advanced) then the tanks firing and moving away will be harder to hit than the tanks firing towards and moving
#25
Posted 12 November 2003 - 06:29 PM
where soviet you have the deso, rhino dog and td, with allies you have rocketeers (which are stupid because they move before shooting and they go the wrong way) grizzly tanks which are good, harrier (which go the wrong way and they miss and they double shoot and repair and stupid things), prism tank which is such a stupid unoriginal idea, yea lets have a tank that has a huge range but sucks **** against tanks what a good idea, mirage tanks which are way too stupid, blah blah blahAllies don't suck if you know how to use them.
allies are too complicated, soviet are simple and you dont need to learn for 2 years to be good with them.
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