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Patch Tourney 1.007 trial


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#1 desoLane

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 01:35 AM

1.007 tourney T.T

This idea has been discussed. Riz thought it might be a good idea to try a test run in a smaller setting. A BA vs Hazed Tourney. The Hazed clan is growing daily and shouldn't have any problems getting members to commit and participate. This can be done w/o any time commitment on ST's end. Here is a link to the tourny grids on Hazed:

http://www.haz3d.com/modules.php?name=tours

Keep in mind that these are test setups. If you could set the tourney up on BA's end or offer an alternative solution vs Hazed, that would help progress the idea along.

#2 [-BA-] Piscinex

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 04:23 AM

What are we testing?

#3 desoLane

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 04:33 AM

What are we testing?

The concept.

#4 [-BA-] Piscinex

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 09:41 AM

The concept.

What's the concept? I assumed it would just be 1vs1 knock-out tourney (or something else fairly standard) but using 1.007.

#5 desoLane

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 10:42 AM

Piscinex,Oct 8 2005, 09:41 AM]What's the concept? I assumed it would just be 1vs1 knock-out tourney (or something else fairly standard) but using 1.007.

From your patch topic:

Piscinex,Aug 23 2005, 01:15 PM]Also I need suggestions on other changes that might need to be made: as long as things need to change this stays a work-in-progress.

Testing a concept on a smaller scale and producing results of the test for potential implementation on a larger scale is not uncommon and promoted in the software industry. As you have stated yourself, the patch is a work in progress, and is subject to bugs and unforseen circumstances. I also understand that it has not been thouroughly tested with standard maps. A proven concept is easier to implement on a larger scale. There are many nuances to running tournaments that you may not be aware of because alot of things go on behind the scenes.

If you do not wish to assist and/or promote proving the concept, then this will directly affect the likeliness/imminence of a larger scale implementation. If you wish to further debate the decision, please do not expect a quick response, as a resonable solution has been offered.

Edited by desoLane, 08 October 2005 - 10:43 AM.


#6 [-BA-] Piscinex

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 11:41 AM

From your patch topic:

Testing a concept on a smaller scale and producing results of the test for potential implementation on a larger scale is not uncommon and promoted in the software industry. As you have stated yourself, the patch is a work in progress, and is subject to bugs and unforseen circumstances.

The work-in-progress state of the patch is due to three different factors:
1) Bugs, glitches, unforeseen errors etc.
2) Balance and the effect of the new changes on gameplay.
3) A philosophical point-of-view that the patch (and game) can be continually improved and refined.

As you correctly state, the first of these factors would ideally need to be eliminated as much as possible before such a tournament. I say "ideally": the reality is that most bugs were identified and fixed during the "beta" stage and many more in the (numerous) updates after release. There have been no major updates for some weeks as I am happy that no major bugs exist.

Equally, by definition the patch will have all the same hard-coded bugs the game already has so you can't aim for a bug-free product (certainly not if you're using the original RA2 as a yardstick, since presumably 1.007 already has fewer bugs than 1.006, even counting new bugs it might theoretically introduce).

The second of these factors is long-term and can't simply be eliminated. Moreover, the concept of the tournament (in my mind) will help identify how the patch can be developed. Clearly this also tallies with the third factor.

I also understand that it has not been thouroughly tested with standard maps.

All maps that were changed (and all other commonly-played maps) have been played using all countries with a vast range of players. It is up to your judgment as to whether that qualifies as "thoroughly tested".

A proven concept is easier to implement on a larger scale.

Indeed, but a Hazed vs BA tournament would in fact be a smaller scale compared to the number of people who have played it and given feedback since release.

There are many nuances to running tournaments that you may not be aware of because alot of things go on behind the scenes.

As far as I am aware, tournament organisation is irrelevant to this issue. No special organisation is required, except for ensuring that people download and use the launcher correctly (which is surely of the same magnitude as ensuring people have downloaded the TOE map, for example). And I believe no such testing was done for the TOE tournament.

If you do not wish to assist and/or promote proving the concept, then this will directly affect the likeliness/imminence of a larger scale implementation.  If you wish to further debate the decision, please do not expect a quick response, as a resonable solution has been offered.

No, I have already made it clear that (for obvious reasons) I fully support such a tournament and am willing to assist in its running. I fail to see how refuting a confusing (and redundant) decision qualifies as not assisting the concept. It's more likely, I suspect, that there's some confusion as to the complexity of the patch (it is essentially just a glorified mod) or lack of understanding of the months of testing it has already undergone.

#7 desoLane

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 07:11 PM

Discusion of 1.007 Patch tourney moved into new thread

#8 riz

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 02:27 PM

except for ensuring that people download and use the launcher correctly (which is surely of the same magnitude as ensuring people have downloaded the TOE map, for example).


this would be the main purpose of the testing, to see how easy it is to get ppl to download and be able to play.

And I believe no such testing was done for the TOE tournament


at the time i was under the impression that you had made the toe map and since it was u i assumed that the map would work considering a previous tourney had been arranged on the same map.

Laney has no intentions of allowing a tourney to be run with any glorified mods without knowing they work as stated.

we werent thinking 1v1, we were thiking of a few 2 player teams from each side taking part as the test.
1. for fun
2. To remove any confusion over the complexity of the mod
3. decide whether it will be time well spent or too much hassle organising an event on a larger scale.

#9 RHiNoKiLL

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 11:29 PM

so if this test thingy works out well.... does that mean we will be using this patch as the whole server?

#10 desoLane

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 01:10 AM

so if this test thingy works out well.... does that mean we will be using this patch as the whole server?

No, not based on the results of this trial tourney. This is a trial of a patch tourney only. Its doubtful the changes you describe will be implemented any time soon, if at all.

#11 [-BA-] Piscinex

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 09:48 AM

Laney has no intentions of allowing a tourney to be run with any glorified mods without knowing they work as stated.

How has it been stated as working? How does a small-scale tournament represent a more accurate or better test than a large-scale release, or the moths of beta-testing it went through? And the point about a "glorified mod" is that mods, by definition, function correctly because they don't change much that's fundamental to the functioning of the game.

at the time i was under the impression that you had made the toe map and since it was u i assumed that the map would work considering a previous tourney had been arranged on the same map.

No, I had offered to make the changes to the map for Wes, I had no further role in the tournament. I obviously made sure it functioned (but I did not know at the time about the 3vs3 bug that existed in YR) but testing was up to the organisers at the time (Wes in fact tweaked the timer himself). Also the original tournament never took place.

we werent thinking 1v1, we were thiking of a few 2 player teams from each side taking part as the test.
1. for fun
2. To remove any confusion over the complexity of the mod
3. decide whether it will be time well spent or too much hassle organising an event on a larger scale.

I cannot promise anything from the BA side. We haven't recruited or clanned for several months. Some of the old players may return and we might recruit some new ones, but for now I don't know. Although we've come back before so we'll see.

I would also rather like it if you could answer some of my (I think) rather reasonable arguments as to the purpose of this tournament. If you are unsure about whether the patch is reliable, functional etc then a far better way of testing it would be a more scientific test of all common maps, units, abilities etc for functionality.

#12 MaeL

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 10:54 PM

Why that is called patch "tournament"?
Is there a possibility to do, in the futur, a ra2 1.007 official patch?

Edited by MaeL, 13 December 2005 - 04:55 PM.


#13 desoLane

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 01:13 AM

Why that is called patch "tournament"?

Because you need to load the unofficial patch to play :) The patch tournaments are run by Piscinex, not Strike-Team/XWIS, please contact him for more details.

Is there a possibility to do, in the futur, a ra2  1.007  official patch?

A patch would have to be approved by EA, and would likely be anti-cheat and not a balance patch if it were to happen.


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