158 replies to this topic

[Sustanon]

Im not sure who said this, but the reason sovs have always been overpowered is the Desolator and the Iron Curtain.
Yes grizzly tanks are plastic, that just makes it worse for them lol

Desolator and Iron Curtain? Really? Are you even aware that the allied can just chronoshift (Chronosphere, surprise, surprise - the allied faction has got Superweapons too!) 9 iron curtained soviet Rhino Tanks into the sea and make them go bubbly, bubbly, bubbly, in an instant? Yes, that's a loss of 9 * 900 $ for the soviet and a wasted Iron Curtain. Granted the Iron Curtain charges a little bit faster than the Chronosphere, but the soviet faction needs this, badly. Superweapons aren't always on in QM. Though, in SvA they should be. People crying about Desolators, really? Soviets need them, badly, too. Or do you really believe that the allied faction has the ultimate right to win once they gathered 20 Mirage Tanks with 5 Prism Tanks behind them, that outrange anything the soviet faction has (yes, even Rhino Tanks!)?

 

Only OP thing about allies is a spy.

 

I think ore purifier and navy is also pretty OP.

Spy, Tanya, Ore Purifier, Nighthawk Transport (from War Factory), Engi IFV (free repair!), Chrono Legionnaires, Gap Generator, Spy Sat, ... are all OP.

I could go on and on. Does anyone still believe that soviet is the superior faction just because they have tanks that are more expensive and according to those 200 $ also proportionally stronger? Obviously you can't expect 1 Rhino Tank for 900 $ to be exactly the same as 1 Grizzly Tank for 700 $ unless you're just really, really dumb.

 

[...] clearly in favor of PiNeRs and him playing America.

I take this back. If Edd plays America and PiNeRs plays Iraq, then I'm going to vote for Edd!

Edited by Sustanon, 22 November 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[FReQuEnZy]

The thing is the ore purifier doesn't really kick in that fast, If you go for a fast IC build chances are that the allied player will get out tanked if rushing for an ore purifier.

[ExpaNd]

Sigh, you can not chrono iron curtained tanks.

Early Soviet economy is better and you can tech quicker/more stable then allies...
War miners bring more money then chrono miners..


And to the guy who said "equal skilled players allied will beat soviets" i think is siralex, is just talking nonsense.
The point of allied is multitasking/control ...

You COULD say they are even at a very high level (this depends on maps)
But for skill levels 7/10 or what not the soviet side will win most of the time just due to the fact they are easier to play (rhino spam anybody? Rhino spam? Rhino spam? How come Mikoz can beat everybody in this topic but only rhino +dog spams. Is allied that overpowered that it cant beat simple rhino+dog spam?)
Get real, the only logic to this is that allies are better these days due to the maps.
My 2 cents is that the higher reso also makes allied easier to play then in the past.
Its mostly map dependant when you get to skill level 10/10
But show me a 10/10 allied player?
Why are markos latof tim and tomi best players and they use the underpowred sovs side?
Do half of you guys understand how ridiculous you sound?

Anyways, i have a rivalry with Piners Dating back to like 06
(When yr was deadish i would get on ra2 throughout the years and just 1v1 him, very fun ggs!)
That being said, i will vote edd because if piners loses after not being rusty i will make fun of him for eternity.
Kthxbai

Edited by ExpaNd, 22 November 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[Sustanon]

The Ore Purifier costs 2500 $. Please tell me this isn't OVERPOWERED...

Income without Ore Purifier:

ore = 500 $
gem = 1000 $

Income with Ore Purifier (+ 25 % !!!):

ore = 625 $
gem = 1250 $

So what are the mathematical equations? How many times does your miner need to unload for the Ore Purifier to pay off?

Ore: 500x = 625x - 2500
Gems: 1000x = 1250x - 2500

As you can see, your miner needs to return 20 times (with normal ore) or 10 times (with gems) for the Ore Purifier to pay off itself. Assuming you have 5 miners, they each need to return 4 times with normal ore (by the time you have an Ore Purifier, you will most likely have 6 to 7 or more miners), so the Ore Purifier basically pays off immediately and gives the allied player + 25 % more income.

If you really believe that the Ore Purifier isn't overpowered, you can be deemed officially insane.

[Seke]

You can't chronoshift IC'ed tanks.

 

In regards to getting an ore purifier, it is really good, but its not even a viable option on most maps, as in probably 90% of them.

 

To get an ore purifer you have to spend so much money that in order to start profiting from doing that its going to take some 60x for a miner to get ore and come back because you have to get extra power/battle lab/sacrifice time.

 

 

As for allied navy, it is particularly good because dolphins can "shoot through" stuff and acc has unlimited supply of planes.... But.... deso again kills dolphins instantly (depth charge) and dreadnaught, while significantly weaker vs. anti air, basically kills any structure in 1 hit and fires like 4x faster. Scorpions are also super fast, cheap, can attack land (this is actually useful) and are very good anti air since they do splash damage.

 

I'm not saying allied navy is worse than soviet, it isn't, but soviet's navy can be very good too, particularly the dreadnaught that can kill everything in 15 seconds.

 

 

 

Also, chronosphere seriously sucks. The last competitive game where I got a chronosphere was like 2010 and A v A vs RooT on arctic circle for a 45 minute game.

Edited by Seke, 22 November 2015 - 05:33 PM.

[heldro2]

The Ore Purifier costs 2500 $. Please tell me this isn't OVERPOWERED...

Income without Ore Purifier:

ore = 500 $
gem = 1000 $

Income with Ore Purifier (+ 25 % !!!):

ore = 625 $
gem = 1250 $

So what are the mathematical equations? How many times does your miner need to unload for the Ore Purifier to pay off?

Ore: 500x = 625x - 2500
Gems: 1000x = 1250x - 2500

As you can see, your miner needs to return 20 times (with normal ore) or 10 times (with gems) for the Ore Purifier to pay off itself. Assuming you have 5 miners, they each need to return 4 times with normal ore (by the time you have an Ore Purifier, you will most likely have 6 to 7 or more miners), so the Ore Purifier basically pays off immediately and gives the allied player + 25 % more income.

If you really believe that the Ore Purifier isn't overpowered, you can be deemed officially insane.

 

you are forgetting opportunity costs.

 

anyway imo soviet is much better(easier) because they mainly build tanks and dogs. the allied player needs to invest alot of time and money (afc rockies planes lab purifier gap alot of pillboxes) to get an edge over the soviet player. they need alot of micromanagement to fend of the sov player to reach this point, and now i see people in this topic claiming allieds are just as good if not better as sov because they can reach this point after hard work lol. ofcourse the allied players can also choose only to build tanks and dogs but the soviet player will always have the advantage since after the tank groups reach a certain amount of size the rhino tanks will always have more tanks in fire range as grizzly's.

 

and dont get me started about deso's.

[XXxPrePxX]

Since the addition of the new maps, it has drastically helped out the allied faction.

 

In general, ra2 has always been a sov slightly overpowered game, typically due to deso/IC. But this is heavily map-dependent, and we see that with the addition of the new, larger, more vast maps. Allieds can now use the advantages King Alex discusses (speed, multiple units) to the best of their abilities. A player that runs around with grizzly tanks to base trade with rockies and para is an elite player in todays game.

 

TLDR: Maps are an important variable not to forget in this discussion, maybe the most important.

[BeHumble]

You can't chronoshift IC'ed tanks.

In regards to getting an ore purifier, it is really good, but its not even a viable option on most maps, as in probably 90% of them.

To get an ore purifer you have to spend so much money that in order to start profiting from doing that its going to take some 60x for a miner to get ore and come back because you have to get extra power/battle lab/sacrifice time.


As for allied navy, it is particularly good because dolphins can "shoot through" stuff and acc has unlimited supply of planes.... But.... deso again kills dolphins instantly (depth charge) and dreadnaught, while significantly weaker vs. anti air, basically kills any structure in 1 hit and fires like 4x faster. Scorpions are also super fast, cheap, can attack land (this is actually useful) and are very good anti air since they do splash damage.

I'm not saying allied navy is worse than soviet, it isn't, but soviet's navy can be very good too, particularly the dreadnaught that can kill everything in 15 seconds.



Also, chronosphere seriously sucks. The last competitive game where I got a chronosphere was like 2010 and A v A vs RooT on arctic circle for a 45 minute game.

+10000000000000

The Ore Purifier costs 2500 $. Please tell me this isn't OVERPOWERED...

Income without Ore Purifier:

ore = 500 $gem = 1000 $

Income with Ore Purifier (+ 25 % !!!):

ore = 625 $gem = 1250 $

So what are the mathematical equations? How many times does your miner need to unload for the Ore Purifier to pay off?

Ore: 500x = 625x - 2500
Gems: 1000x = 1250x - 2500

As you can see, your miner needs to return 20 times (with normal ore) or 10 times (with gems) for the Ore Purifier to pay off itself. Assuming you have 5 miners, they each need to return 4 times with normal ore (by the time you have an Ore Purifier, you will most likely have 6 to 7 or more miners), so the Ore Purifier basically pays off immediately and gives the allied player + 25 % more income.

If you really believe that the Ore Purifier isn't overpowered, you can be deemed officially insane.

Yes and no. You're not taking into account the whole situation. Mason clearly addresses this properly

Edited by BeHumble, 23 November 2015 - 05:52 PM.

[XXxPrePxX]

I'm not saying allied navy is worse than soviet, it isn't, but soviet's navy can be very good too, particularly the dreadnaught that can kill everything in 15 seconds.

 

That reminds me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_r85E44ixo

[PiNeRs]

 

 

In general, ra2 has always been a sov slightly overpowered game,

 

Well la dee freakin' da.

[Edd]

But this is heavily map-dependent, and we see that with the addition of the new, larger, more vast maps. Allieds can now use the advantages  (speed, multiple units) to the best of their abilities. 

 

 

bada bing bada freakin' boom.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Edd, 23 November 2015 - 08:24 PM.

[Mikoz]

I woudnt say the new maps favor allies. They are just better playable for both factions. Its a big relieve to play maps like divide,landmarks and jungle instead of sovereign land,hammer and may day.

Edited by Mikoz, 24 November 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[PiNeRs]

lmao. I agree-- the new maps have changed the game over time. But at least the allies CAN do what they do best and its a game now. The sov cant get away with as much brainlessness. Big whoop, still OP.

 

　

Despite being very simple, ra2 is quite the skill-based game, resulting in a rather noticable array of skill-gaps between players, with latof being on a level never before seen, frankly. Such things are possible due to the sheer pace of the game being so extreme along side the dynamic nature of the unit movement. To paraphrase josh regarding the movement on one of his streams: "some days you just have it and you can feel it. good players know what im talking about."  That is what decides games.

The balance business is relevant after all, and interesting. Points typically run along the lines of the iron curtain being way better than the chronosphere (which it is), desos having the best potential damage per cost ratio, mistake recovery and mistake potential both favoring sov, war miner final push shenanigans, etc. And ofc the counter arguments for allies like their speed, the ore purifier, and the spy. The list goes on and it is worth discussing, i love me some ra2 theory. However, there is one advantage that the sov have that i think is objective, namely the tesla reactor builds faster than the power plant. It may not sound like much at first, but at high levels, such an advantage becomes apparent. Quick.  Shit-tons can go wrong in the first 4 minutes--it is not uncommon to see a top level game be decided in such time or even less. An advantage in the form of intiative / tempo indeed. The build-time head start is amplified by the fact that you are low power at the start of the game when the powers are in construction, as well as every other time you make a power plant. This equates to a 2-3 (more if u misclcik) second head start and builds up to 6++ seconds with the additional power plants. In a game that can end in 3 minutes, or, as mason put it, a "dreadnaught can kill everything in 15 seconds", 3-6 seconds is a terribly long time. It's like playing black in chess: you go 2nd.

 

 

 

[Seke]

That reminds me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_r85E44ixo

 

lol awesome.

[BeHumble]

lmao. I agree-- the new maps have changed the game over time. But at least the allies CAN do what they do best and its a game now. The sov cant get away with as much brainlessness. Big whoop, still OP.
 
　
Despite being very simple, ra2 is quite the skill-based game, resulting in a rather noticable array of skill-gaps between players, with latof being on a level never before seen, frankly. Such things are possible due to the sheer pace of the game being so extreme along side the dynamic nature of the unit movement. To paraphrase josh regarding the movement on one of his streams: "some days you just have it and you can feel it. good players know what im talking about."  That is what decides games.
The balance business is relevant after all, and interesting. Points typically run along the lines of the iron curtain being way better than the chronosphere (which it is), desos having the best potential damage per cost ratio, mistake recovery and mistake potential both favoring sov, war miner final push shenanigans, etc. And ofc the counter arguments for allies like their speed, the ore purifier, and the spy. The list goes on and it is worth discussing, i love me some ra2 theory. However, there is one advantage that the sov have that i think is objective, namely the tesla reactor builds faster than the power plant. It may not sound like much at first, but at high levels, such an advantage becomes apparent. Quick.  Shit-tons can go wrong in the first 4 minutes--it is not uncommon to see a top level game be decided in such time or even less. An advantage in the form of intiative / tempo indeed. The build-time head start is amplified by the fact that you are low power at the start of the game when the powers are in construction, as well as every other time you make a power plant. This equates to a 2-3 (more if u misclcik) second head start and builds up to 6++ seconds with the additional power plants. In a game that can end in 3 minutes, or, as mason put it, a "dreadnaught can kill everything in 15 seconds", 3-6 seconds is a terribly long time. It's like playing black in chess: you go 2nd.

Ggnore

[ExpaNd]

So edd must have been a really good player to slap u around last time with allied.

Wonder how this series is gonna turn out

[Steffen]

So when will this event start? It should be timed very early date and time! Because it would be awesome to have many viewers live on stream! So if Edd and Frank have the time discussed, we have to advertise it on Forum, Facebook etc.

Edited by Steffen, 25 November 2015 - 07:58 PM.

[LetsBoogie]

Not quite a pay-per-view match such as Matt vs. "Insert name", but I may watch it. More smack talk would gain my interest more.

 

Was in the lobby just chillin' and heard Edd talkin' mad shit about Frank tho.

 

Frank....go eat that boy up. 

[rumblesom]

Frank said Edds a noob, Edd said refer to previous ass-whupping per my stream rebroadcast tonight. 12 or so of us did, but everyone seems to think Frank is in considerably better form this time.. Pretty interesting matchup imo!

[Seke]

Looking forward to it ofc. Is someone commentating?

[Shuk]

Half play a good allied game? Pretty sure that means average.

 

Sorry I think that's my local dialect showing through lol

 

'cant half play' where I come from means...very good player

 

Good luck to both

[OIafWannabe]

lets see, game is 15 years old, last patch has been around 01-02, 13-14 years later people still arguing about which team is better and how unbalanced a team might be, dear lord enlighten these human beings.

 

as for the challenge, less talk, more action. nm forgot its 2015 ra2, not gonna happen, talk wins.

 

edd is a class player, frank is a trash player, outcome will be the same like last time. but sadly you can own the rats all the time, they still always find a way out of their hole.

i just know too good by my own experience, anyways have fun walking over it edd.

 

take it ez, there can only be one true king

[LetsBoogie]

I sure had fun walking over Mr. Tomi (over and over). Lets do it again sometime 

 

"I didn't try because it's 2015" 

 

Yawn. 

[PiNeRs]

Looking forward to it ofc. Is someone commentating?

 

Josh is, but you should co-commentate.

 

It's going to be the weekend of dec 18-20. And if ur co-commentating with josh, whatever night is best for you guys.  

 

 

and..Thanks matt, ill get em breaku style. l0l

[PATRIOT15]

 

 

Grizzly tanks cost 700 $
Rhino tanks cost 900 $
 
Line up 7 rhino tanks against 9 grizzly tanks with someone allied to you (both cost exactly the same, do the math, it's 6300 $).
 
Break the alliance and let the tanks shoot each other. If you think the rhino tanks will win, well, then you're pretty dumb. No-one will "win"     because rhino tanks and grizzly tanks are well balanced. The imbalance comes into play with everything else that the allied faction has, add a free paradrop and the rhino tanks will literally melt away - that's an imbalance.

 

No way. We can check it, but in real, Rhinos will win this challenge.

 

Rhino have to make 4 shots on Grizly to destroy it, in the same time Grizly has to make 7 shots on Rhino to destroy it.  Its like Rhino on 75% stronger then Grizly, and only on 28,6 % more expensive then Grizly, and I didnt mention Rhino has better range, what makes it easier to control, but evin in close fight, Rhinos would win.

 

 

 

9 iron curtained soviet Rhino Tanks into the sea and make them go bubbly, bubbly, bubbly, in an instant?

 

Teleporting of Iron Curtained Rhinos, are you serious?