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Best way to get startet and stand a chance?


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#1 gnoraz

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:24 PM

Hi to all,

 

i last played RA2 in 2006 or something i cant even remember it. Just started again playing that game but couldnt stand a chance. I practiced a bit vs Computers Medium an Brutal. Then i made 5 QM's but everytime lost all my Rhinos at my attempt to attack (maybe it was to early dont know or too late to attack).

 

I dont know the maps and often im building in the wrong direction. Also im so damn slow in scouting my dogs get killed when i see a quarter of the map. 

 

Is it still possible to get started again in this game? Or is everyone too skilled and a noob will never win? How can i improve?



#2 ZiGZaG

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:31 PM

Play loads of games, read up on tactics and training tips you can find here on the forum, this section (Strategy and Tactic's) has a lot of useful information to help you out, however the best way to improve is practice.

 

Watching Video's of others playing may help aswell.

 

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/163378-red-alert-2-yuris-revenge-tiberian-sun-replays/



#3 rumblesom

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:14 PM

like zigzag says playing loads of games is the true way to improve. However if you get tips from the pros you should consider most of them to be critical. Using hotkey to place structures actually results in a significantly faster build. Following the established guidelines for launching your economy is also crucial. Tank fights mostly involve facing forward (guns at the enemy) and not clicking too much. A noob mistake is to give too many commands too quickly, in that case the tanks continually adjust targeting and never actually fire. This takes some practice, but in essence, once engaged in battle you should:

 

-maintain a forward facing position to the enemy tanks

-keep your tanks in a tight formation, this can be done by making short clicks i.e driving a group a short ways ahead causing them to cluster (increasing tank density) 

-not click too often, (allowing your tanks to fire, particularly as soviets)

-bring dogs or infantry units into the fight. Enemy tanks will be distracted and target them; that is if your infantry/dogs are within enemy range (keep them up front, 'fodder' is useless if it is out of enemy range.)

 

to place stuctures via hotkeys: say you have a barracks ready to place, instead of scrolling the right side menu to select it, simply hover your cursor over the place you want to drop the building, and press 'q'. Presto! your building is selected and waiting for you to confirm placement (green building footprint pending). Use 'q' for buildings like an ore refinery or warfactory, and 'w' for structures such as a pill box or tesla coil. Note: 'e' and 'r' will allow you to browse the infantry and vehicle tabs respectively.

 

very basic eco: to continuously build tanks + prepare a structure + train a *few* infantry or prepare a sentry gun/pill box without going to 0 credits (one of the absolute worst mistakes): 

 

5miners on gold if soviet, 6(?) if allies. (this is better done while also owning 1 oil derrick, helps to avoid momentary 0 cash)

therefore your basic build should typically go: power, barracks--> 3 dogs scouting immediately (send them across them map), refinery facing ore/gems, warfactory--> 1 or 2 miners then tanks, tanks, tanks, and then second ore refinery after that... take it away! you should have gotten off to a good start!


Edited by rumblesom, 12 February 2014 - 11:31 PM.


#4 gnoraz

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

Thanks for your replies. Seems like I just  need more practice ill try that. I also tried to speak with somone in game in the USA HQ but no one answered...

 

I have a really hard time vs allied players. I have the feeling if im waiting more than 5mins the allied player has built so much defense in his base and mirage tanks that i have no chance. And then there are his rocketiers...

I dont have a clue how to withstand this i tried to desolate some tanks but im too slow for this i guess.

 

Also the statistics after the match are often like this me built 60 something and my opponent buil 85 or 90 something...

On what should i mainly concentrate building after the normal build order?

Just more warf? Tesla coils to get more defense?



#5 Shauny

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:09 AM

If he makes Rockies make a couple of flaks because his sure to have planes, then when your going to attack out your desos in the flaks so planes can't pick them off! Drive your flak into his tanks an deploy! Then his mirages will blow up like they never existed lol, mind you decent allied players can stop this happening,

#6 fir3w0rx

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

When you meet someone better than you, keep bugging them for 1v1s!

#7 gnoraz

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:46 AM

so everyone :D



#8 Drasten

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 11:04 AM

There are a few shortcuts to getting better on the game. rumblesom already mentioned most of them, also use a very high resolution and make sure your mouse-sensitivity is exactly how high you want it.

 

In order to really become good though you need to practise alot, keep playing vs good players. Also dont play on maps with crates, funny big map, rekool or whatever. These kinds of maps will make you learn a way different playstyle (sit in your base and building up) that wont be practical in "real" matches where you need to keep being aggressive, scout the map early on (you cant get spysat for example) and just overall take map control and micro alot of units at the same time. On noob maps, like those earlier mentioned, you wont develope these kind of skills since they arent as needed there since those maps are mostly about sitting in your base building 500 apocs or prismtanks then attacking.

 

so:

 

- Use a very high reso+perfect mouse sensetivity.

 

- Use shortcuts and scroll while holding down right-mouse button.

 

- Make sure you number ur tanks, rockies and so on into separate groups.

 

- Try to be as fast as possible with building placement and production.

 

- Learn each units weakness/strenghts so you can counter it the right way.

 

- Watch alot of pro players on youtube.

 

-Try to pay attention to everything, what your enemy is doing and what yourself is doing, check minimap for splits/rockies and paras.

 

- Make sure your ore ref placement is right at the gems/ore. Always go for gems first. Make sure you mine the ore/gems as efficiently as possible.

 

- Scout your opponent+vital parts of the map with dogs.

 

- Dont play noob-maps.

 

- Play alot vs good players, ask them for tips.

 

- Be aggressive and take every opportunity you can to preasure your opponent. Is his miner undefended? well attack it, is his oil derrick unprotected split 1-2 tanks to it and attack it.

 

- Play good countries. Dont play cuba/russia etc... Try to stick to Iraq or America imo.

 

- Having better economy then your opponent is very good. If he goes 0miners you can go 1, if he goes 1 you can usually go 2 etc... 1 more miner then your opponent is a good rule of thumb. Well unless he goes like 2-3 miners then going 0miner rush can often be the right way to do things.

 

- Mix in dogs with your tanks, keep the dogs infront of your tanks at all time. As soviet you can also use conscripts/dog combo for this.

 

- Send in one connie or gi into important neutral structures.

 

- Make sure you know exactly how the map looks like so you can build on it the best way possible without having to think to much about it.

 

- Its good to have a sentry or flak cannon/patriot ready at all time depending on who your facing and what he is building. If your facing an allied for example and he has many rockies, make sure you got your flak cannon rdy to place down under the rockies if needed etc...

 

- Grizzlys and rhinos is the backbone of the army, use these units ALOT, most other units provide support or fills a niche of some sort.

 

- Dont tech up to early, (some exceptions to this though) this will impact your tank production and is 19/20 games a bad idea.

 

- Capture any oil derricks/neutral airports on map.

 

- If you see a drone, run your tanks kinda close to it so it engages then run away hopefully killing the drone without it jumping on you, if you get drones its usually best to just ctrl key kill the droned unit.

 

Well thats all i can think of for now.


Edited by Drasten, 14 February 2014 - 11:25 AM.


#9 gnoraz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:28 PM

Wow thanks i very much appreciate your effort for writing this good text @Drasten

 

I have some questions though ;)

 

 

 

-Try to pay attention to everything, what your enemy is doing and what yourself is doing, check minimap for splits/rockies and paras. 

Is there a way to make the minimap somehow bigger? at 1920x1200 i hardly can see anything on it

 

 

 

Having better economy then your opponent is very good. If he goes 0miners you can go 1, if he goes 1 you can usually go 2 etc... 1 more miner then your opponent is a good rule of thumb. Well unless he goes like 2-3 miners then going 0miner rush can often be the right way to do things.

How can i determine how many miners my opponent is going to build?

 

 

 

Make sure you know exactly how the map looks like so you can build on it the best way possible without having to think to much about it.

Best way to learn this i guess is play play play?

 

 

 

Dont tech up to early, (some exceptions to this though) this will impact your tank production and is 19/20 games a bad idea.

But when to tech up then ? And as soviet especially what am i trying to achieve with it? Deso-Bombs? Apoc/Deso? One player said to me that building  the nuclear plant is bad, really?

 

 

 

Watch alot of pro players on youtube.

Im mainly playing Iraq so soviet players who have videos would be nice. I already know AlexGoMad (like these videos alot) and Chris. Are there more soviet players to mention?


When you meet someone better than you, keep bugging them for 1v1s!

Would you like to demolish me? ;)



#10 Shauny

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:44 PM

Keep watching his war factory too see how many he produces, you can tell after a fee seconds if his making another minor( if you don't see a tank come out)

Scroll around the main map as much as poss trying to keep an eye in his army, you won't always see him moving on mini map so scroll around map lots by holding right mouse button down

#11 ZiGZaG

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:40 PM

Wow thanks i very much appreciate your effort for writing this good text @Drasten

 

I have some questions though ;)

 

Is there a way to make the minimap somehow bigger? at 1920x1200 i hardly can see anything on it

 

I use this reso and rarely need to use the minimap.

 

How can i determine how many miners my opponent is going to build?

 

Make sure u scout his warfac, keep building miners untill you see his first tank, dont que miners up just have 1 building at a time, keep an eye on how many he has and how many you have, then once you see a tank exit his warfac finish the miner ur on and make tanks, you should have 1 extra miner.

 

Best way to learn this i guess is play play play?

 

yes!

 

But when to tech up then ? And as soviet especially what am i trying to achieve with it? Deso-Bombs? Apoc/Deso? One player said to me that building  the nuclear plant is bad, really?

 

It Depends on  the map, situation and your plan of action. Teching fast on Naval maps  is ussually advisable, its better than multiple warfac's on naval map's Tight maps with 1 or few entrance's e.g Amazons Delta. As Soviet there is many uses for a battlelab, a lot of players underestimate the effectiveness of the fully teched soviet arsenal, Deso's, Apoc's, Kirov's, v3's, yuri clones are all good effective units when used in the correct situation. i dont think buillding a nuclear power plant is bad, however i would keep an  eeye on it durring gameplay as if all your power is in 1 building there is the risk of losing power and in certain situations this can cost you a game. 

 

Im mainly playing Iraq so soviet players who have videos would be nice. I already know AlexGoMad (like these videos alot) and Chris. Are there more soviet players to mention?

 

The page i posted had video's of players playing ra2 as both soviet and allied's look through somme of the youube video's :)

 

Would you like to demolish me? ;)



#12 gnoraz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:59 PM

So hey i played another QM game and some games against a brutal computer. Versus the computer im doing ok i guess. Atleast i win, one match i lost where the computer rushed me.

 

The QM match was very bad. at the time he had 10 tanks i had 4 or something i was very very nervous dont know why. Not much fun i dont have the time learning something i just get stomped. This is not me whining about the fact I suck. It's just my perspective of the things.



#13 ExpaNd

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

So hey i played another QM game and some games against a brutal computer. Versus the computer im doing ok i guess. Atleast i win, one match i lost where the computer rushed me.

The QM match was very bad. at the time he had 10 tanks i had 4 or something i was very very nervous dont know why. Not much fun i dont have the time learning something i just get stomped. This is not me whining about the fact I suck. It's just my perspective of the things.


People don't like to play the game, they like to win as fast as possible, even if they know they are playing someone worse, so do not get discouraged, it is hard to train, especially these days, when yiu are playing the computer, just try to use as many different groups of teams as possible!

#14 Drasten

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 11:44 PM

So hey i played another QM game and some games against a brutal computer. Versus the computer im doing ok i guess. Atleast i win, one match i lost where the computer rushed me.

 

The QM match was very bad. at the time he had 10 tanks i had 4 or something i was very very nervous dont know why. Not much fun i dont have the time learning something i just get stomped. This is not me whining about the fact I suck. It's just my perspective of the things.

 

It takes time to become good at this game. A tip from me is dont play vs the computer, it will teach you to play in the wrong way since it by no means is even close to a human-player. Just keep playing vs as good ppl as possible and keep losing. A lose often will help you improve more then a win. U can expect it will take several years of active playing before you actually become good. Lets face it. 90% of every xwis player sucks, and this community has some of the higher average skill lvl of players.

 

You need to know how the units works, exactly how the map looks like, keep track of whole map, have good micro+macro build as fast as possible, know the right build orders for the map your playing and semi-manually control your miners for best result.These skills take time to learn good, and extremly few ppl can claim to have mastered them. You should stick to iraq for now since for most ppl iraq is the easiest faction to learn. Against other soviets the units that makes up 99% of the battle is: drones, rhinos, dogs, connies and desos. As allied you arguably need to control more of a diversity of units and preasure alot with airplay/paras etc which forces you to micro more... So there are less stuff to worry about as soviet so its easier to learn. Still extremly difficult to learn well though. But its easier to become decent as soviet then allied imo.


Edited by Drasten, 14 February 2014 - 11:50 PM.


#15 ExpaNd

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

I will be on NiLe22 today, if you want I can play some 1v1s and just chill to help you get your skill up,(I'll try to make least amount of units as possible and win,lol)

If I'm not in a game already

Edit:Don't let these guys lie to you, if you were able to somehow get games consistently it should only take you2- 3months to get good at this game (but that's with activity).

Edited by ExpaNd, 15 February 2014 - 10:30 PM.


#16 Shauny

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:51 PM

lol dont do that tony you need to play normal but give hints along the way :D



#17 ExpaNd

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:55 PM

lol dont do that tony you need to play normal but give hints along the way :D


Not with beginners, you need to attack their base when you have 3tanks and they have 6 lol.

Besodes it's fun because I can use every unit combination imaginable :D and lots of Elite troops :p

#18 Shauny

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:56 PM

haha and take the whole map xD



#19 ExpaNd

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:13 PM

haha and take the whole map xD


Hey man that's how I like to play when I'm chill lol, I even try it vs good players :p Just don't finish them off right away, make them quit or wait for my nuke/weather >:l

Gotta do what you can to have a gg these days!

#20 gnoraz

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

Hey i would like to play versus you expand. Im just onlibe duting the week mostly not on weekends. Also im from germany so i dont know in which timezone you are but maybewe will find a way ;)

#21 fir3w0rx

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

People don't like to play the game, they like to win as fast as possible...

Very true.




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