I think franks suggestion of removing almost every map on qm is obsurd - the ability to adapt has always been whats seperated the good players from the average, and the great from the good. People like adam excel when it comes to finding ways to grind sov players down in tough spots. What youre suggesting sounds to me like a watered down, homogonised rts experience. Why play defcon when you could be playing sv? Is that just because piners prefers sv? I happen to enjoy defcon avs and i win more than i lose. If you want to play a small number of carefully selected maps then make a game in the lobby, and only re on your maps.. Qm is about the randomness and having the adaptability to build and attack in a lot of different settings, and thats what makes it the most fun and addictive part of ra2.
Changes to RA2 Map List- November 2013
Started by rumblesom, Nov 03 2013 10:49 PM
91 replies to this topic
#77
Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:47 PM
I think franks suggestion of removing almost every map on qm is obsurd - the ability to adapt has always been whats seperated the good players from the average, and the great from the good. People like adam excel when it comes to finding ways to grind sov players down in tough spots. What youre suggesting sounds to me like a watered down, homogonised rts experience. Why play defcon when you could be playing sv? Is that just because piners prefers sv? I happen to enjoy defcon avs and i win more than i lose. If you want to play a small number of carefully selected maps then make a game in the lobby, and only re on your maps.. Qm is about the randomness and having the adaptability to build and attack in a lot of different settings, and thats what makes it the most fun and addictive part of ra2.
if I beat you 70 games to 2 on all maps, will you stfu and admit you have no idea what ur talking about ? Tired of this nonsensical babble.
#78
Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:52 AM
if I beat you 70 games to 2 on all maps, will you stfu and admit you have no idea what ur talking about ? Tired of this nonsensical babble.
The fact that you definitely couldn't beat me 70-2 isn't even relevant. What difference would that make? This isn't decided by whoever the best player is. If it was then marko would be deciding, and (unlike you) he can play all maps and factions without constantly moaning about how unfair it all is. My post was not nonsensical babble - unlike your response, it contained some content. You seem very unwilling to engage in actual debate, which doesn't really add weight to your "remove everything but a handful of frank's favourite maps" argument. Will you pretend we're grown-ups and respond to what I actually said rather than attacking my tank control please? 
On another note, question for admins: It says 34 members have voted, but only 24 votes seem to have been counted, which means quite a few votes (including mine) have disappeared. Why is that?
Edited by DryFeet, 28 November 2013 - 11:01 AM.
#79
Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:07 PM
. You seem very unwilling to engage in actual debate, which doesn't really add weight to your "remove everything but a handful of frank's favourite maps" argument. Will you pretend we're grown-ups and respond to what I actually said rather than attacking my tank control please?
Sounds like a damn good point of view to me.
But u missed my point entirely. I expressed what I thought were the best maps-- not my fav maps. I used SV as an example.. I actually get raped on Sv, but that doesn't take away from how good of a map it is, regardless. I was suggesting which maps would make it the most competitive. Randomness, like u say, is fun, but takes away from the seriousness. It depends on what ur goal is.
Lemme elaborate on what I mean. Take marko, for example, like you said. I have a FAR better chance beating marko in a series with all of these maps because there are so many imbalances. (BL sp, TR DMZ, Malibu cliffs, etc.) if I played him on the maps on my list....well... I would just get slapped, cuz the luck factor is drastically reduced. Does this clarification make sense to you ?
Does the Sc2 pro circuit have 12,000,000 maps that are randomly selectredd? No. Does the wc3 pro circuit? No. They have like 5-15 maps. The most expert-enriched, if you will, maps.
#80
Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:22 PM
Sounds like a damn good point of view to me.
But u missed my point entirely. I expressed what I thought were the best maps-- not my fav maps. I used SV as an example.. I actually get raped on Sv, but that doesn't take away from how good of a map it is, regardless. I was suggesting which maps would make it the most competitive. Randomness, like u say, is fun, but takes away from the seriousness. It depends on what ur goal is.
Lemme elaborate on what I mean. Take marko, for example, like you said. I have a FAR better chance beating marko in a series with all of these maps because there are so many imbalances. (BL sp, TR DMZ, Malibu cliffs, etc.) if I played him on the maps on my list....well... I would just get slapped, cuz the luck factor is drastically reduced. Does this clarification make sense to you ?
Yeah it does. Maybe I was skewing it a bit by calling them your "favourite" maps. I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains valid - QM in its current form is very fun, varied and addictive. If you wanna play super-serious pro-standard ra2 where you only use the fairest maps, you are already free to do this, and always have been. If other players agree with you then they can go to the lobby and play with you. But if you turn QM into this tournament style "professional" game, you're leaving us without the option of improvising and having fun. If we could only match 11 maps AvS the same old bo's would quickly get stale. That's the key distinction - selecting maps is a power you already have, but taking the randomness away would hurt the game. Wanting it to be fun doesn't mean I want to cater for noobs - I'm not proposing crates, 10 units and mount olympus. I believe the current form of qm is more fun for players of all levels, even if it makes it harder for top pros to get 100-0 stats.
Do you understand my point of view now?
Edit: I agree there are a couple of things that are totally unfair and should be removed, like the DC br spot and lake blitzen TvB. But most really aren't that bad - you've dismissed a lot of maps that are really very playable.
Edited by DryFeet, 28 November 2013 - 12:26 PM.
#81
Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:11 PM
On another note, question for admins: It says 34 members have voted, but only 24 votes seem to have been counted, which means quite a few votes (including mine) have disappeared. Why is that?
I don't know how your vote disappeared. There is also the option to null your vote which is still increases the count believe. No votes have been deleted to my knowledge, are you sure your vote was lost?
#82
Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:12 PM
Does the Sc2 pro circuit have 12,000,000 maps that are randomly selectredd? No. Does the wc3 pro circuit? No. They have like 5-15 maps. The most expert-enriched, if you will, maps.
1) no-one's proposing 12 million maps
2) I understand sc2 is played for big money... If that was the case here, I'd agree with you. But ra2 is still alive for jone reason and one reason only - we enjoy it.
#84
Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:12 PM
It says 34 members have voted, but only 24 votes seem to have been counted, which means quite a few votes (including mine) have disappeared. Why is that?
I have just withdrawn my vote and tested as Null, Null does count. So ten people have clicked 'Null - View Results'.... Hope that helps.
I agree with all your points also.
#87
Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:41 AM
Yeah it does. Maybe I was skewing it a bit by calling them your "favourite" maps. I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains valid - QM in its current form is very fun, varied and addictive. If you wanna play super-serious pro-standard ra2 where you only use the fairest maps, you are already free to do this, and always have been. If other players agree with you then they can go to the lobby and play with you. But if you turn QM into this tournament style "professional" game, you're leaving us without the option of improvising and having fun. If we could only match 11 maps AvS the same old bo's would quickly get stale. That's the key distinction - selecting maps is a power you already have, but taking the randomness away would hurt the game. Wanting it to be fun doesn't mean I want to cater for noobs - I'm not proposing crates, 10 units and mount olympus. I believe the current form of qm is more fun for players of all levels, even if it makes it harder for top pros to get 100-0 stats.
Do you understand my point of view now?
Besides your Edit (that was babble) I don't disagree with any of this. Maybe you dont understand still.. I said 'it depends on your goal' for a reason. And I never said my goal was to make it more "professional". I was presenting an idea that would balance the qm, if done. That is all. You come to me and call my suggestin (not an argument btw) "Absurd" attempting to point out logical fallacies, invalid arguments in a tone that indicates you're under the impression your some sort of philosophy major or something. And yet you attempt to start a logical argumentative conversation with me....seems like babble.
You like debating, don't you ?
#88
Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:23 AM
Lol thats your response? "i wuznt even serious, why u so serious lol?" ok dude i promise to be less logical in futureBesides your Edit (that was babble) I don't disagree with any of this. Maybe you dont understand still.. I said 'it depends on your goal' for a reason. And I never said my goal was to make it more "professional". I was presenting an idea that would balance the qm, if done. That is all. You come to me and call my suggestin (not an argument btw) "Absurd" attempting to point out logical fallacies, invalid arguments in a tone that indicates you're under the impression your some sort of philosophy major or something. And yet you attempt to start a logical argumentative conversation with me....seems like babble.
You like debating, don't you ?
Seriously though mate, this is a debate about whether to remove maps from qm - that is literally all we're doing here. If you dont wanna discuss it then i dunno what youre doing here posting suggestions. In fact, considering you dont even qm any more i REALLY dont know what youre doing here. I was just opposed to taking maps out of qm in general - i think there should be more. It wasnt meant to be a personal attack. Philosophy major? Lol i dropped out of school at 17 to party and play in bands... If i know how to argue my point i dont think you should hold that against me!
Edited by DryFeet, 29 November 2013 - 11:24 AM.
#90
Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:23 PM
Lol im not new to the internets and it's not so easy to troll me into a flame war... Come back if you ever think of anything to say! Let's all just hope edd doesnt own you 10-0 like i did in this thread. 
Thanks for playing!
Thanks for playing!
#92
Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:56 PM
Fair enough. Why arnt u fond of simply giving the players the choice, dry feet? That way, if u wanna play all the maps, u can. If u dislike some of the new ones, you don't have to play them. Seems like the most fair doesn't it ? You claim that the best thing to do is appease the most ppl, so isn't this the direction to accomplish this?
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
