77 replies to this topic

[BornL33T]

Sand maps sux, 1 hit from 2 prisms tours kills anything including miners and MCVs.

It would be nice if they converted into another theater skin.

[ExpaNd]

Sand maps sux, 1 hit from 2 prisms tours kills anything including miners and MCVs.
It would be nice if they converted into another theater skin.

That's what makes allies good on maps like dry heat.



Also I reread my proposal, its pretty solid and you can add whatever you want in there obviously, but the maps that are in there, are balanced for the most part.

That's the one topic I tried not flaming anyone in hahaha reading old posts of mine make me realize how much I've changed
(+1 feels) lol

[Crisis]

Good soviet and allied players can beat Yuri on any map, no maps should be excluded. Why should smaller maps be removed? Bigger maps put Yuri at a big disadvantage.

Have you ever played the game before? I could pick a few maps as yuri (I haven't played as yuri since I think 2007) and probably beat any player that still plays the game.. 

 

He is correct the bigger the map the more yuri is at a disadvantage. The reason is it gives more time for sovs to react and tech for ic and nuke. Scouting a big map is hard going as yuri and many of the big maps have oils which are very hard to get vs an engi eater.

 

Despite how good boomers are I would hate to play vs sovs on hammer and sickle. It's a perfect map for deso camping and spamming choppers.

 

It does seem like the hardest possible maps for yuri have been chosen by Soviet players which is why you are now only down to one yuri player!

 

Your biggest problem is not the maps but lack of activity. If you have no yuri in yuri's revenge then why not just play ra2 where there are 10x the players?

 

You should be doing everything possible to encourage people to play as yuri even if it's on maps that don't suit your play style or have the slightest possibility of losing to someone you are "3x better than".

 

It's one thing to brag yuri bows to you on a map that actually favours sovs and another to earn that right on a map that favours yuri.

It is true that the bigger the map the worse for Yuri, but Yuri is an OP faction and needs some sort of disadvantage...
And allies aren't good on dry heat vs yuri. (GB might be decent I guess)

Edited by Crisis, 06 September 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[ILoveKane]

Yeah I played a lot back in 2007-2009, made top 10 many times, with a high of rank 3 when activity was good. Who cares if Yuri is better on some maps? Luck of the draw. Some maps Yuri really struggles on and they are not excluded from QM, maps such as Sahara Mirage, country swing etc. Unless the Yuri player is a hardcore mapper like Sunny these maps are very difficult to beat top soviet/allied players on.

 

Zigzag I respect your opinion I simply do not agree with it. Yuri struggles on very small maps against soviet because of desolators, which can make it almost impossible to mine the ore. It takes a very skilled Yuri player to combat, which I doubt there are any left now.

 

You could be right about some of the Naval maps, then again if Yuri is making Naval that costs cash which also gives soviet time to rush fast. There is a counter to everything it is all about timing.

[ZiGZaG]

Yeah I played a lot back in 2007-2009, made top 10 many times, with a high of rank 3 when activity was good. Who cares if Yuri is better on some maps? Luck of the draw. Some maps Yuri really struggles on and they are not excluded from QM, maps such as Sahara Mirage, country swing etc. Unless the Yuri player is a hardcore mapper like Sunny these maps are very difficult to beat top soviet/allied players on.

 

Zigzag I respect your opinion I simply do not agree with it. Yuri struggles on very small maps against soviet because of desolators, which can make it almost impossible to mine the ore. It takes a very skilled Yuri player to combat, which I doubt there are any left now.

 

You could be right about some of the Naval maps, then again if Yuri is making Naval that costs cash which also gives soviet time to rush fast. There is a counter to everything it is all about timing.

 

Country Swing? its about the most balanced map for svy imo :S, i dont understand this one, can u explain? desolators can be counterd..., and what if your opponent is cuba/russia/libya? A soviet struggle's against yuri on small map's, due to the fact soviets cant take Yuri head on, imho it doesnt take that much skill to stop someone desoing your slaves, 1 chaos drone will stop desos, or a bunker with a gat in it and that patch is safe...ive used this tactic myself as soviets and once the bunker is down and the gat is in, Yuri can mine no problem.

 

You are correct there is a counter for everything, but you are talking about the soviet desolator which i do agree is overpowered (especially in YR) but so is almost the entire Yr faction, Yuri's miner's, eco, base defenses, and the majority of tanks are stronger than most of the soviet's, i dont think it requires that much skill to combat it, on a small map (e.g. dune) once the bunker's are up in the correct position's the sov is imho really going to struggle.

 

I used to play this map against leo a lot years back and it was almost impossible to win, because he bunkerd his base all over the place, and used the fact yuri has too many strength's to his advantage, as for your point about it taking a skilled player to combat it, it also takes a skilled player to micro deso's while avoiding drones/bunkers/miner's, you are argueing Yuri's only weakness on a small map :/  his economy, as a soviet player if i cant attack Yuri's economy on a map that size i can tell you straight off, i will more than likelly lose, even if i am a better player and have played better than my opponent.

[Crisis]

Yeah I played a lot back in 2007-2009, made top 10 many times, with a high of rank 3 when activity was good. Who cares if Yuri is better on some maps? Luck of the draw. Some maps Yuri really struggles on and they are not excluded from QM, maps such as Sahara Mirage, country swing etc. Unless the Yuri player is a hardcore mapper like Sunny these maps are very difficult to beat top soviet/allied players on.

 

Zigzag I respect your opinion I simply do not agree with it. Yuri struggles on very small maps against soviet because of desolators, which can make it almost impossible to mine the ore. It takes a very skilled Yuri player to combat, which I doubt there are any left now.

 

You could be right about some of the Naval maps, then again if Yuri is making Naval that costs cash which also gives soviet time to rush fast. There is a counter to everything it is all about timing.

Who were you in 2007-2009? Yuri isn't just better on some maps, it's impossible to beat a yuri player on some maps. If you don't agree, then I'll play you Yvanything on deadman's ridge and we'll see how much you enjoy that game. I would never bail Yuri players and I would frequently play them on maps like Dune or Blood Feud because you at least have a chance to win against them on those despite the imbalance (although it's still not very good odds), but some maps definitely should not be included in QM for YvA or YvS. Also maps like CS or Sahara really aren't that bad for yuri either, I played Sunny on those very often (when he was mapping and when he wasn't) and it still took a lot of effort to beat him on those maps.

[ZiGZaG]

I understand why Yuri players dont like sahara, they will charge there engi's at the oils and fail a lot of the time, making one of Yuri's 2 weakness's against soviet come to light (poor economy) in this case, however vs a good Yuri player they will go mid, or take the oils later and the game is fine, using the reason that soviets can easily assualt Yuri's economy to me, makes no sense as its one weakness they must counter, whereas a sov must counter the many different strength's of Yuri, i do think given the current level of player's i would win 99% of my game of SvY on Sahara, but then again we arent talking about me, we are discussing these scenarios at a medium skill level, using the likes of Sunny or someone else as a comparison isnt worth while. 

 

Yes it probably is a hard map for Yuri against Sov's but look at hidden valley, its the opposite situation, having several maps where strength's of faction's slightly differ giving an advantage isnt that bad, however a huge advantage is something we must try to avoid.

 

I dont however, in the slightest understand Country Swing being imbalanced SvY, id like to hear as to why this is your opinion.

 

P.S Rob i dont think id lose deadmans ridge against any Yuri player as soviet. Yes u can mag down the cliff's or camp easy but with all the oils a sov is gonna get, you will seriously outproduce. (Just my thought's)

[Crisis]

I understand why Yuri players dont like sahara, they will charge there engi's at the oils and fail a lot of the time, making one of Yuri's 2 weakness's against soviet come to light (poor economy) in this case, however vs a good Yuri player they will go mid, or take the oils later and the game is fine, using the reason that soviets can easily assualt Yuri's economy to me, makes no sense as its one weakness they must counter, whereas a sov must counter the many different strength's of Yuri, i do think given the current level of player's i would win 99% of my game of SvY on Sahara, but then again we arent talking about me, we are discussing these scenarios at a medium skill level, using the likes of Sunny or someone else as a comparison isnt worth while. 

 

Yes it probably is a hard map for Yuri against Sov's but look at hidden valley, its the opposite situation, having several maps where strength's of faction's slightly differ giving an advantage isnt that bad, however a huge advantage is something we must try to avoid.

 

I dont however, in the slightest understand Country Swing being imbalanced SvY, id like to hear as to why this is your opinion.

 

P.S Rob i dont think id lose deadmans ridge against any Yuri player as soviet. Yes u can mag down the cliff's or camp easy but with all the oils a sov is gonna get, you will seriously outproduce. (Just my thought's)

The yuri player should still be able to get all of his own derricks except for the bridge ones, and can easily kill the bridge ones in the first few minutes with mags. Also you can just set up a bunch of bunkers at all entrances and just make it impossible to attack. The only decent shot a sov player will have is seige on there, and the game will definitely last forever even against a mediocre yuri player. Also I agree sunny isn't the best comparison, but even tojo is good enough that he can probably beat most of the players that play on CS or Sahara

[kickyou73]

We are not talking about thousands of players anymore or hundreds or even 50. There are just a handful now and only Tojo plays as yuri every month.

There is no bottom, middle, top level yuri player. There is only one and he has never made rank 1.

 

It's a joke to even worry about what might happen if you put back the maps yuri has a good chance to win on.

 

Worry about it if he wins month after month (as certain soviets do at the moment) and adjust it as needed.

 

Even if it forces everyone to play yvy at least that differentiates the game from ra2.

[Seke]

We are not talking about thousands of players anymore or hundreds or even 50. There are just a handful now and only Tojo plays as yuri every month.

There is no bottom, middle, top level yuri player. There is only one and he has never made rank 1.

 

It's a joke to even worry about what might happen if you put back the maps yuri has a good chance to win on.

 

Worry about it if he wins month after month (as certain soviets do at the moment) and adjust it as needed.

 

Even if it forces everyone to play yvy at least that differentiates the game from ra2.

 

this is a good point imo

[AlliedPlayer]

No matter what, I would always say........ All maps, all situations to be included in QM - but thats just my opinion. 

 

Variety, change, adaptation...... proves who is best all rounder. 

[ZiGZaG]

No matter what, I would always say........ All maps, all situations to be included in QM - but thats just my opinion. 

 

Variety, change, adaptation...... proves who is best all rounder. 

 

This is more or less what prep did, threw everything in and as a result the little actvity YR had dropped dramatically. I experienced horrible situation's and heard nothing but complaints from the majority of the community, not everyone plays to be the best, some play because they enjoy the game.

 

Kickyou as for your comment about only 1 yuri player there is actually several, yes only 1 or 2 decent and 3-4 unexperienced but i think you will find if we threw ridicolous situations into qm for Yuri more player's would use and abuse it, i enjoy playing as soviet's on YR more than ra2, its very different imo, why should i or anyone else who does not play as Yuri be it with allieds or soviet's have to change what we enjoy and is moderatly fair to accomodate ridicolous situation's?

 

As it stands at the moment unless we have any objection's i will go ahead and have Dune and Blood implemented for SvY/AvY.

 

If anyone has any other map's/situation's they like/dislike, and would like to see added/removed please feel free to do so now.

 

I personally would like to see this map in qm with these situation's i tested this out for SvY with goteborg a few mnoth's back and we had some really good games, i think for all situation's it would make reasonably good gameplay.

 

Army of the potomac -  AvS, AvY, SvY

 

Please give your thoughts and opinion's regarding this suggestion.

[Crisis]

This is more or less what prep did, threw everything in and as a result the little actvity YR had dropped dramatically. I experienced horrible situation's and heard nothing but complaints from the majority of the community, not everyone plays to be the best, some play because they enjoy the game.

 

Kickyou as for your comment about only 1 yuri player there is actually several, yes only 1 or 2 decent and 3-4 unexperienced but i think you will find if we threw ridicolous situations into qm for Yuri more player's would use and abuse it, i enjoy playing as soviet's on YR more than ra2, its very different imo, why should i or anyone else who does not play as Yuri be it with allieds or soviet's have to change what we enjoy and is moderatly fair to accomodate ridicolous situation's?

 

As it stands at the moment unless we have any objection's i will go ahead and have Dune and Blood implemented for SvY/AvY.

 

If anyone has any other map's/situation's they like/dislike, and would like to see added/removed please feel free to do so now.

 

I personally would like to see this map in qm with these situation's i tested this out for SvY with goteborg a few mnoth's back and we had some really good games, i think for all situation's it would make reasonably good gameplay.

 

Army of the potomac -  AvS, AvY, SvY

 

Please give your thoughts and opinion's regarding this suggestion.

Have you tried AvY at all? I can see sovs being decent because they have seige, but allies would be forced to go through the bridges which seems like a nightmare, but I'm not sure I'd have to play the map to form a better opinion. 

[ZiGZaG]

I havent that's why im asking for feedback, the map was in tony's old proposal and when tried for Svy Worked well, as for allies im not sure, im only going by tony's word, (which i know is fairly experienced) if you get the time rob, please try it out and give me your thought's.

[kickyou73]

This is more or less what prep did, threw everything in and as a result the little actvity YR had dropped dramatically. I experienced horrible situation's and heard nothing but complaints from the majority of the community, not everyone plays to be the best, some play because they enjoy the game.

 

Kickyou as for your comment about only 1 yuri player there is actually several, yes only 1 or 2 decent and 3-4 unexperienced but i think you will find if we threw ridicolous situations into qm for Yuri more player's would use and abuse it, i enjoy playing as soviet's on YR more than ra2, its very different imo, why should i or anyone else who does not play as Yuri be it with allieds or soviet's have to change what we enjoy and is moderatly fair to accomodate ridicolous situation's?

 

As it stands at the moment unless we have any objection's i will go ahead and have Dune and Blood implemented for SvY/AvY.

 

If anyone has any other map's/situation's they like/dislike, and would like to see added/removed please feel free to do so now.

 

I personally would like to see this map in qm with these situation's i tested this out for SvY with goteborg a few mnoth's back and we had some really good games, i think for all situation's it would make reasonably good gameplay.

 

Army of the potomac -  AvS, AvY, SvY

 

Please give your thoughts and opinion's regarding this suggestion.

Adding Dune and blood back is a start.

 

Please don't make things any worse by adding more new maps your doing more harm than good.

 

Just revert everything back as it was for years.

 

If you cannot improve things then at least use your time in charge to stop it getting worse.

[ZiGZaG]

Adding Dune and blood back is a start.

 

Please don't make things any worse by adding more new maps your doing more harm than good.

 

Just revert everything back as it was for years.

 

If you cannot improve things then at least use your time in charge to stop it getting worse.

Why cant we improve thing's? Why do you think this would be harmful? The idea behind this is to make thing's fun and fair so everyone enjoy's it, if there is situations in the game that can make fun fair enjoyable games, why not try them out? I see no harm in trial runs for map's and situation's if there is a chance they are worthwhile, While the last renovation was rather crudely done, it brought some new situation's into qm which make for good games and where fun to play and are still in qm at the moment.

[kickyou73]

Why cant we improve thing's? Why do you think this would be harmful? The idea behind this is to make thing's fun and fair so everyone enjoy's it, if there is situations in the game that can make fun fair enjoyable games, why not try them out? I see no harm in trial runs for map's and situation's if there is a chance they are worthwhile, While the last renovation was rather crudely done, it brought some new situation's into qm which make for good games and where fun to play and are still in qm at the moment.

Zig the guys that put the old map pool together did way up each map and the result was each faction had good and bad maps.

Now that balance is gone like all the players.

[ZiGZaG]

the qm scene we have is basically what we first had, all i did was restore qm to the way it was in 2009 and kept 6-7 of the prep's addition's as they had recieved positive feedback. I dont understand what you feel is wrong with it at the moment. Is it that you just dont want to learn/play new map's? I havent added any new maps at all to YR qm.

[kickyou73]

the qm scene we have is basically what we first had, all i did was restore qm to the way it was in 2009 and kept 6-7 of the prep's addition's as they had recieved positive feedback. I dont understand what you feel is wrong with it at the moment. Is it that you just dont want to learn/play new map's? I havent added any new maps at all to YR qm.

Sorry Zig but it's nothing like it was. No unless the maps are added by someone like Alan who plays all 3 side then it's better just to leave things alone.

 

The list below is the maps that have been added for Yuri that I have found so far some of which are ok but some are unplayable for yuri.

 

If you can please just revert.

 

Head for the hills

Hammer and Sickle

Malibu Cliffs

Tanya Training Grounds

Sovereign Land

Arena 33 Forever

The Alamo

Hail Mary

Bridging the gap

A path Beyond 11

Brink of Disaster

[ExpaNd]

Sorry Zig but it's nothing like it was. No unless the maps are added by someone like Alan who plays all 3 side then it's better just to leave things alone.

The list below is the maps that have been added for Yuri that I have found so far some of which are ok but some are unplayable for yuri.

If you can please just revert.

Head for the hills
Hammer and Sickle
Malibu Cliffs
Tanya Training Grounds
Sovereign Land
Arena 33 Forever
The Alamo
Hail Mary
Bridging the gap
A path Beyond 11
Brink of Disaster

Hammer and sickle is unplayable, as Yuri?

Why is head for the hills unplayable? You get to start with gems if you're Yuri.

Sovereign land? Ppl used to say that map was op for Yuri, please explain why u think those maps u put are unfair for yuri, as I don't believe you are serious

Edited by ExpaNd, 10 September 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[AlliedPlayer]

no map is hard for yuri.... surely you just need to get better with using yuri. 

 

 

i can play any map with allied, and do pretty well, but there are lots which are "not good" for allies, which i still do very well on. same goes with some sov players on "non sov maps".

 

just change the way you play to match the environment your in / map your on 

[kickyou73]

no map is hard for yuri.... surely you just need to get better with using yuri. 

 

 

i can play any map with allied, and do pretty well, but there are lots which are "not good" for allies, which i still do very well on. same goes with some sov players on "non sov maps".

 

just change the way you play to match the environment your in / map your on

I watched sunny get slapped over and over again by the likes of Dean and Phailure on really big maps. If you cannot attack pretty quickly after allies tech your going to lose as yuri. Year in and year out everyone says yuri is easy and they are 10x better than the yuri player or whatever but we still have only seen 2 or 3 people get rank 1 on xwis with yuri even today.

 

I am not claiming to be the best yuri player but still good enough to get quite a few hof's over the years. The reason was for every bad map we had a good one. Now we have a sov player picking and choosing the maps without much or any experience playing avy and removing maps like dry heat for svy. Net result 1 person playing yuri.

Hammer and sickle is unplayable, as Yuri?

Why is head for the hills unplayable? You get to start with gems if you're Yuri.

Sovereign land? Ppl used to say that map was op for Yuri, please explain why u think those maps u put are unfair for yuri, as I don't believe you are serious

Re-read what I said.

Edited by kickyou73, 10 September 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[ExpaNd]

I watched sunny get slapped over and over again by the likes of Dean and Phailure on really big maps. If you cannot attack pretty quickly after allies tech your going to lose as yuri. Year in and year out everyone says yuri is easy and they are 10x better than the yuri player or whatever but we still have only seen 2 or 3 people get rank 1 on xwis with yuri even today.

I am not claiming to be the best yuri player but still good enough to get quite a few hof's over the years. The reason was for every bad map we had a good one. Now we have a sov player picking and choosing the maps without much or any experience playing avy and removing maps like dry heat for svy. Net result 1 person playing yuri.

Re-read what I said.

3 of those maps have a lot of derricks, other then that i don't see the problem in those maps, and even with the derricks I don't see a problem, its a little challenging, but so. Please list the maps u think are unfair for yuri. As I'm quite curious. I can see you disliking tanyas training ground, arena 33 and brink of disaster even tho brink is mag ownage. Please is love to hear what maps are unfair for yuri

[kickyou73]

3 of those maps have a lot of derricks, other then that i don't see the problem in those maps, and even with the derricks I don't see a problem, its a little challenging, but so. Please list the maps u think are unfair for yuri. As I'm quite curious. I can see you disliking tanyas training ground, arena 33 and brink of disaster even tho brink is mag ownage. Please is love to hear what maps are unfair for yuri

Interested to see how many oils you could get on Tanya's without dogs and flaks. I don't have the time to break each map for you but maybe the key point is the game played well enough without adding all these new maps and it did drive a number of players away adding them. My advice is put it back as it was and maybe add a new map one at a time rather than loads at once then have some kind of proportional voting to decide if the map stays or not.

Edited by kickyou73, 10 September 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[AlliedPlayer]

arena 33 is almost yuri heaven, is it not ?