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#1 dragonballz

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:18 AM

Guys, how do you guys manage to keep control of your dogs while scouting. When I send them out I lose them. Also how do you make them avoid eating enemy Engis? Poor zigzag Engis are always eaten by dogs without me realising

#2 AMadKirov

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

1- Know the map

2- Know the choke points and put a dog there and pray your dog kills the enemy then scout, however the 1st dog is always to the enemy base.

3- Use Ctrl+shift to scout (It basically makes the dog walk and if any dog gets in front of it he kills it and keep walking the whole move its called "Attack-move")

4-dont scout too early the oils and if you do then waypoint your dog near of it dont let it stand still.

5- if you are playing for example Torny b or may day use a ifv or flack to get to the enemy base and pray the enemy doesnot have a drone.



#3 Niek

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

Normally I build 4 dogs numbered from 1 till 4 in early game.



#4 ZiGZaG

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:07 PM

Guys, how do you guys manage to keep control of your dogs while scouting. When I send them out I lose them. Also how do you make them avoid eating enemy Engis? Poor zigzag Engis are always eaten by dogs without me realising

 

:D dont worry about it haha, 

 

i suggest numbering them 1 through 4 then pressing the key twice to auto locate to the dog



#5 Niek

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:14 PM

That is what I said.

 

Spam

 

 

 

Olaf 1 warning point for ZiGZaG please



#6 rumblesom

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:41 PM

Right-click scroll, follow the cleared shroud ^^

#7 fir3w0rx

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:58 AM

When at an entrance to your enemy's base, LURE then DODGE, it eliminates the luck factor. On Isle of War, lure (from cliff) with one dog then eat with another.

NOTE: The above techniques only work if your enemy isn't paying attention.

On small maps, if you get anti-scouted and you have no more dogs, don't waste money on another dog, use your first rhino or grizz to scout. Don't worry about getting droned (but of course dodge if you can), intel is much more important, losing this one tank won't cost you the game. Some ppl use drones, but I prefer tanks (not flak traks or ifvs coz they die too quick).



#8 ZiGZaG

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:10 AM

That is what I said.

 

Spam

 

 

 

Olaf 1 warning point for ZiGZaG please

 

You didnt tell him how to auto locate! 

 

When at an entrance to your enemy's base, LURE then DODGE, it eliminates the luck factor. On Isle of War, lure (from cliff) with one dog then eat with another.

NOTE: The above techniques only work if your enemy isn't paying attention.

On small maps, if you get anti-scouted and you have no more dogs, don't waste money on another dog, use your first rhino or grizz to scout. Don't worry about getting droned (but of course dodge if you can), intel is much more important, losing this one tank won't cost you the game. Some ppl use drones, but I prefer tanks (not flak traks or ifvs coz they die too quick).

 

I think that's a bad idea tbh, if i use my first tank to scout and it will take damage and/or die mabye, this leaves me 1 tank behind, on a small map as you have stated if i lose my first tank and get rushed im in trouble... i dont see it coming and im a tank down? doesnt sound good to me lol mabye i misunderstood?



#9 Drasten

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 09:47 AM

You didnt tell him how to auto locate! 

 

 

I think that's a bad idea tbh, if i use my first tank to scout and it will take damage and/or die mabye, this leaves me 1 tank behind, on a small map as you have stated if i lose my first tank and get rushed im in trouble... i dont see it coming and im a tank down? doesnt sound good to me lol mabye i misunderstood?

 

Its usually better to use a drone then imo. If all your dogs died chances are your opponent has atleast 2 dogs or more alive. If you get a drone you can usually fairly easy kill their dogs with the drone. Basicly giving your money back for it while getting a good scout and perhaps even drone his miner/tank if you got good micro and some luck. If you scout with a tank he will see your tank before you see him beacuse he scouted better. Then there is a real risc he can drone your tank or attack it with his tank from a better position causing you to perhaps even loose your tank. On small maps this can be deadly if up vs a good opponent.

 

As allied if i fail to scout i normally just get a rockeeter to do the scouting. Vs allied you can also use a ifv or perhaps even a grizzly tank.


Edited by Drasten, 20 August 2013 - 09:48 AM.


#10 fir3w0rx

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:14 AM

I think that's a bad idea tbh, if i use my first tank to scout and it will take damage and/or die mabye, this leaves me 1 tank behind, on a small map as you have stated if i lose my first tank and get rushed im in trouble... i dont see it coming and im a tank down? doesnt sound good to me lol mabye i misunderstood?

Its usually better to use a drone then imo. If all your dogs died chances are your opponent has atleast 2 dogs or more alive. If you get a drone you can usually fairly easy kill their dogs with the drone. Basicly giving your money back for it while getting a good scout and perhaps even drone his miner/tank if you got good micro and some luck. If you scout with a tank he will see your tank before you see him beacuse he scouted better. Then there is a real risc he can drone your tank or attack it with his tank from a better position causing you to perhaps even loose your tank. On small maps this can be deadly if up vs a good opponent.

As allied if i fail to scout i normally just get a rockeeter to do the scouting. Vs allied you can also use a ifv or perhaps even a grizzly tank.


You both have good points, but I don't know; Losing one tank used for scouting has never really bothered me, and tbh I'm not sure why, I've never really thought about it. It's one of those things that doesn't make sense in theory, but works in practice. Put it this way, when you rush with 2 or 3 rhinos and you're forced to kill one of them because it got droned, did you automatically lose the game?

Besides, Tomi does it :p


#11 rumblesom

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

Use a flak, they cost less, build quicker and drive faster (get you the scout sooner)

What zigzag says is correct, scouting with your first tank is very risky, especially on small maps

#12 rumblesom

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:26 PM

The lbl video does not show a typical incomplete scout; it shows the smallest spawn distance in the game which has already been mostly revealed. More often scouting with a tank will be too slow and less shroud will be uncovered, meaning there is a greater chance of wasting a full tank and not even completing the scout

#13 ExpaNd

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:02 PM

I've never use one tank to scout, but. I have used groups before to pressure scout!

#14 fir3w0rx

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

Hmmm... ok. I'm not one to argue (especially when it's 3 against 1 :p) but at least you (dragonballz) have a few options you can try, see which one works best and let us know when you get a chance.

#15 ExpaNd

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:26 PM

Hmmm... ok. I'm not one to argue (especially when it's 3 against 1 :p) but at least you (dragonballz) have a few options you can try, see which one works best and let us know when you get a chance.


I mean to each his own!

#16 dragonballz

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 05:22 PM

i tried the flak scout , got drone and didnt help. i havnt tried the drone one yet and i dont think i will use a tank lol



#17 JoKuJaK

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:10 PM

use all army.. its ur def and ur attack.. scout step by step with it if it seems lost for the dog ways.. scout atleast important places and chokes... if u dont see the base its no problem it will eventually get bigger n show itself so and if it doesnt its easy game, only tricky with superweapons therefor better not rush super weapon if ur scout is bad

 

be carefull for splits/counters but at same time ur making that happen see its good ;)


Edited by JoKuJaK, 20 August 2013 - 06:14 PM.


#18 JoKuJaK

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

bro u must be so pro



#19 dragonballz

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:29 AM

this avoiding engi eating buisness is hard. no matter what i do i always end up eating engi :(



#20 ALiTheGreatest

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

I think your problem is you do not know the maps well enough yet. concentrate on just scouting what you need to, enemy base and oils. You should just always expect anti scout so send them to the edge of the choke point or around ore near his base but not 2 close 2 miners or your dog will be killed lol and then scout the center of his base. this will involve a lot of clicks and turns not to hard tho. Like I said though knowing where you are and your enemy is when possible before you scout is essential to this all.



#21 ZiGZaG

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:51 PM

You both have good points, but I don't know; Losing one tank used for scouting has never really bothered me, and tbh I'm not sure why, I've never really thought about it. It's one of those things that doesn't make sense in theory, but works in practice. Put it this way, when you rush with 2 or 3 rhinos and you're forced to kill one of them because it got droned, did you automatically lose the game?

Besides, Tomi does it :p

 

i would never scout with a tank or a drone, tank can put you behind, and a drone barely reveals anything and is fairrly likely to killed on the attempt, if i cant scout which is rare but on maps like isle and mayday it can happen, id use a flack track and sometimes put a drone in it, (i do this on isle if my scout fails.) scout with the flack track and deploy it besdie his miner, this makes it worth making the flack imo, you can reveal ur enemy and drone his miner.

 

Tomi isnt really using that tank to scout hes using it to start pressuring, he can already see enough of the base tbh. His enemy isnt going to keep his tanks in the shroud and judging by the fact hes got 2 tanks there and no tanks have came to meet him he knows his enemy has went at least 1 miner, therefore its not as big a deal for him. Im willing to bet he wouldnt run a tank into a completely unscouted base.



#22 ExpaNd

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:35 PM

I didn't watch that video, but it sounds like what Tomi is doing, is pressure scouting!


....

Be careful if someone knows you didn't scout and blindsides you lol

Edited by ExpaNd, 22 August 2013 - 09:36 PM.


#23 fir3w0rx

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:31 AM

I didn't watch that video, but it sounds like what Tomi is doing, is pressure scouting!....Be careful if someone knows you didn't scout and blindsides you lol

Yeah this, except with your first tank & not waiting for your 2nd or 3rd before going in. It'd be nice if Tomi replied to this, but he probably wont want to talk about it coz this is a secret strategy that only us uber pros know about.

:p

Edited by fir3w0rx, 23 August 2013 - 12:33 AM.


#24 DrVanNostrand

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 02:38 PM

scouting against allieds with a tank is pretty good, scouting against soviets with 1 tank and then going miners is one of worst things you can do.

but if you go straight tanks only then its okay to go scouting with em.



#25 fir3w0rx

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:02 PM

scouting against allieds with a tank is pretty good, scouting against soviets with 1 tank and then going miners is one of worst things you can do.

but if you go straight tanks only then its okay to go scouting with em.

Haha yes! Tehking himself backs me up Tease.gif

Just to expand on your point about how scouting with 1 grizz then making miners is bad - This is true because even if both players went straight for tanks, the Allied player will still be behind with the tank count*.

*
Spoiler



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