42 replies to this topic

[rumblesom]

Hey guys,

 

 

As you know, a massive change was implemented some time ago to the YR QM (perhaps a year or more). 

 

Now having allowed sufficient time for players to become accustomed to the changes I think we can judge the results. Overwhelmingly, it seems players dislike what has been done. Looking at the process in detail, it seems the changes were more to the effect of an "overhaul" rather than a "refinement". Such a sudden and stark change change is often controversial, but over time it appears the objective balance of the game has been skewed.  Additionally, players report that outside of imbalances between factions, the gameplay and game style of the QM has changed. Many of the maps added produce long, campy games and may not suit the concept of a quick match.

 

Here is my own (one) interpretation of the term quick match: firstly it refers to the process of finding a game (quickly) but also refers to the average length of games played. Games that last in excess of 30mins do not meet this criteria. Nonetheless, of course there are exceptions to the rule. Therefore, in a very general sense, the map pool ought to strike a certain balance between longer games (less) and shorter games.

 

Between players of equal strength, map features determine this game length and style.  

 

As an example, here is a description of the "YR QM theme" of 2009 (this was given to me by a veteran YR pro)

 

While ra2 is based on speed, Yr is more based on tactical ability- making units count, unit spam is useless here. The eco is a lot stronger on yr and lots of techs is something that's in some map's and should stay in qm; for instance Tanya's Training Grounds. Some, however, should be removed due to the layout of the map and techs. Most situations for allies vs soviet on yr work fairly well in the way you can bring most of the units into the game. The problem is when it comes to the yuri faction, putting yuri on a strong eco map or risking having a soviet player in a weak spot against a powerful spot yuri would be a catastrophic mistake, and this where the problem's arise.

 

The model of the ra2 qm was something I carefully considered when Frank and I started releasing our map patch years ago. Asking essentially, "what has made the ra2 qm so much fun?" Now having witnessed the reaction to the YR QM changes, I don't think a similar process was followed. 

 

I have discussed the matter with several pro YR players and have developed a new proposal based on their comments and some general guidelines for implementing map changes. This essentially amounts to a rollback to the yr qm of 2009 and the addition of a limited number of new maps/scenarios.

 

Please look over the list, comment on it and aspects of what makes the yr qm fun and other changes you'd like to see. The feedback gathered here will be used to revise the list and hopefully generate a new map pool for the yr qm (pending that is what players vote in favor of)

 

Thanks for your consideration here

-Josh

 

 

YR QM Maps & Settings 2013 (Proposal)

 

QM of 2009: (mirror match on all)

Tour Of Egypt - AvS

Paris Revisited - AvS, AvY

Deadman's Ridge - AvS

Death Valley Girl - AvS (Supers always on if possible)

Official Tournament Map A - AvS

Pinch Point - AvS

Isle of War - AvS

Meat Grinder - AvS

The Alamo - AvS

DEFCON 6 - AvS

Depth Charge - AvS

Roundhouse Kick - AvS

Stormy Weather - AvS

Lake Blitzen - AvS

May Day - AvS

New Heights - AvS

No Wimps - AvS

Official Tournament Map B - AvS

Snow Valley - AvS

South Pacific - AvS

Tanya's Training Grounds - AvS, AvY

Cold War - AvS

Face Down - AvS

Dry Heat - AvS

Urban Rush - AvS

Blood Feud - All

Dune Patrol - All

Hidden Valley - All

Offense Defense - All

Golden State Fwy - All

Country Swing - All  

Sahara Mirage - All  

Heartland - All - 

Montana DMZ - All 

Hammer and Sickle - All 

 

New Maps & Settings (mirror match on all)

Hail Mary - SvY

Bridging the Gap - AvS, AvY

A Path Beyond II - AvS

Carville's Convoy - AvS

Happy Trails - AvY

Malibu Cliffs - AvS, AvY

Soveriegn Land - AvS, AvY

Twin Peaks - AvS

Valley of Gems - AvS 

Head for the Hills - AvS, AvY

Arena 33 Forever - AvY

Brink of Disaster - AvS, AvY

Lost Lake - AvS

 

^^Updated 25/09/2013^^

 

Dune Patrol , Blood Feud Changed to all matchup's

Soveriegn Land changed from all to AvS and mirror only.

[ZiGZaG]

I just want to make it clear to all player's who vote/comment or give an opinion here, this is an ongoing process, the idea is to slowly add/remove maps situations in order to achieve a the happy medium. 

 

if this is implemented, after a month or two the situation will be re-addressed and the community's opinion will be asked for, and changes will be made.

 

The idea behind this is the fact the last renovation was something the majority of player's thought was a disaster. Rather than throw 102 maps in qm like Prep tryed. We will slowly test this out in order to make the game somewhat more enjoyable for everyone.

 

If you see something in this proposal you think is unfair/imbalanced or just generally bad please say something. And remember it will always be open for discussion and changes.

Edited by ZiGZaG, 15 May 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Seke]

imo quick match only refers to the speed in which you match an opponent and NOT the duration of the game.

[AbRoMoV]

hooray, finally some change!

[SoVsOrDiE]

Surely Seke is right in that the 'matching' of a player is fast and the length of the game is just variable, obviously..

[rumblesom]

why is it obvious? I'm not talking about the function of the button...

[Crisis]

I'm of the opinion that quickmatch games should be quicker, I think 10-20 minutes is a very reasonable time for a game vs skilled players, 20-30 happens once in a while in very intense games, but not usually. If a game is pushing 30+ minutes in qm it's one of three categories in my opinion: it's either 1. a stalemate (someone naval stretched and base traded or something along those lines), 2. The map itself is not well suited for any attacking at all (narrow entries/one or two entries), 3. or you're playing against a yuri player. 

The third and first items can't really be changed without changing the underlying mechanics of the game, but the problem with the maps can definitely be changed, and I feel that the suggestion for the change to the maps is appropriate for this to be resolved. The problem with the new maps was mainly that they encouraged long, dragged out, and seemingly uneventful games (at least in my opinion), this is partially due to the fact that sws are random in qm on yuri's now (which I don't think is a bad thing, but I don't think it helped with the maps either as it encouraged a lot more camping between allies and sovs). New maps are definitely necessary for yuri qm, but I don't think a lot of the maps that were added were appropriate for it either though. 

[XXxPrePxX]

Hey guys, I just wanted to comment -- The QM proposal that I made back ages ago was to essentially 'dump' it all into qm to squeeze the last bit of fun out of QMing on YR.

 

I applaud what you guys are doing here, but equalizing things and narrowing it down to gain better competition is kind of silly to me. YR is long gone, and all focus should be turned on ra2.

 

http://xwis.net/yr/

 

It just isn't worth it....

 

But to each their own!

[hops11]

Hey guys, I just wanted to comment -- The QM proposal that I made back ages ago was to essentially 'dump' it all into qm to squeeze the last bit of fun out of QMing on YR.

 

I applaud what you guys are doing here, but equalizing things and narrowing it down to gain better competition is kind of silly to me. YR is long gone, and all focus should be turned on ra2.

 

http://xwis.net/yr/

 

It just isn't worth it....

 

But to each their own!

the irony of this and a majority of the players on YR QM over the duration have done nothing but complain on how bad you're qm revolution was. thus making some of them leave YR to Ra2.

[SoVsOrDiE]

Definitely agreed with Prepston, Ra2 needs to be the main focus now. I get the feeling trying to revive YR now would be like trying to put a slug in a slot machine..

[Crisis]

Hey guys, I just wanted to comment -- The QM proposal that I made back ages ago was to essentially 'dump' it all into qm to squeeze the last bit of fun out of QMing on YR.

 

I applaud what you guys are doing here, but equalizing things and narrowing it down to gain better competition is kind of silly to me. YR is long gone, and all focus should be turned on ra2.

 

http://xwis.net/yr/

 

It just isn't worth it....

 

But to each their own!

I don't really think it's about competition, I mean I'm rank 7 with 175 points right now and it's mid month already, it's more about making qm fun for those few people who still play it. 

[ZiGZaG]

The idea is simply to put some enjoyment back into the game as many players do not like the current situation. As for all the players saying we should focus on ra2, the aim of xwis is to keep cnc games alive, that includes yr and ts. Yes ra2 is the most active of the games and recieves the most attention. Doesnt mean yr and ts should be ignored.

[AbRoMoV]

The pool from 2009 was best. That new maps might have some potential although some have been in the pool already (sovereign land for instance.)

I'd encourage every YR player to contribute especiailly the "Yr faction" players.

[Seke]

The idea is simply to put some enjoyment back into the game as many players do not like the current situation. As for all the players saying we should focus on ra2, the aim of xwis is to keep cnc games alive, that includes yr and ts. Yes ra2 is the most active of the games and recieves the most attention. Doesnt mean yr and ts should be ignored.

 

I agree. I support YR QM renovation!

[ExpaNd]

Add Oceanside AvY!!!!!

[Yak]

The idea is simply to put some enjoyment back into the game as many players do not like the current situation. As for all the players saying we should focus on ra2, the aim of xwis is to keep cnc games alive, that includes yr and ts. Yes ra2 is the most active of the games and recieves the most attention. Doesnt mean yr and ts should be ignored.

 

Agree 

[ZiGZaG]

Olaf can we mabye have a response from you here? This situation needs to be addressed. YR is completely dead, its been dead a long time, but activity was roughly that of TS if not slightly better, Now its at its lowest ever point and some change is needed. 20 nicknames in the current ladder and several of the nicks belong to the same people. 

[hardman]

Unfortunately i think its past the point that another QM renovation would fix by itself. 

 

Maybe having this renovation and a massive advertising push/ another prize invasion would be the only way to boost activity.

 

Ive considered coming on a lot lately but everytime i look to go on there simply arent any players on... what good is a QM renovation if there are no players there to benefit from it?

Edited by yiddo, 19 July 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[ZiGZaG]

Unfortunately i think its past the point that another QM renovation would fix by itself. 

 

Maybe having this renovation and a massive advertising push/ another prize invasion would be the only way to boost activity.

 

Ive considered coming on a lot lately but everytime i look to go on there simply arent any players on... what good is a QM renovation if there are no players there to benefit from it?

 

I agree but like you all the players look see no-one and therefore dont bother, something has to be changed or fixed, the other two games are doing much better activity wise Ra2 especially obv but id expect yr to at least be on par with TS in terms of activity, given its current situation i wouldnt even have a win/loss limit on yr.

[hardman]

I agree but like you all the players look see no-one and therefore dont bother, something has to be changed or fixed, the other two games are doing much better activity wise Ra2 especially obv but id expect yr to at least be on par with TS in terms of activity, given its current situation i wouldnt even have a win/loss limit on yr.

 

I wonder if its possible to get another prize invasion or similar organised? Like the one grant held a while back.... id be happy to help organise and even donate some prizes... and it could be used to let everyone know of the new QM renovation

Edited by yiddo, 20 July 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[ZiGZaG]

personally i think its a good idea, kind of need to get an admin involved though imo

[rumblesom]

update coming soon

[hardman]

personally i think its a good idea, kind of need to get an admin involved though imo

Yea it wouldn't work without admin support

[AlliedPlayer]

update coming soon

 

dum dum dummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

drum roll please.   

[Olaf]

Paris Revisited - AvS, AvY
Tanya's Training Grounds - AvS, AvY

AvS, AvY is equivalent to All, isn't it?