174 replies to this topic

[tbiol]

whoops

 

[ZiGZaG]

The new rules are a good addition its just too little to late, thats the problem with any changes and updates now and over the last 3-4 years dont get me wrong i really appreciate the effort, however i understand both sides of this arguement, this is detrimental to activity which should be the primary concern now. Regardless of what rules and changes are now implicated i think its time just to make the games as fun and fair for everyone as possible.

[Niek]

You're a Scot. Did you drink some whiskey before writing?

Edited by Niek, 21 May 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[ZiGZaG]

You're a Scot. Did you drink some whiskey before writing?

 

Very on topic post there No i didnt! Whisky makes me violent

[Olaf]

this is detrimental to activity

We believe cheating is even more detrimental to activity

[ZiGZaG]

We believe cheating is even more detrimental to activity

 

I agree cheating is detrimental to activity, i just believe in the current situation activity should be the main concern, im simply stating i understand preps POV

[Seke]

We believe cheating is even more detrimental to activity

 

I agree and support.

I agree cheating is detrimental to activity, i just believe in the current situation activity should be the main concern, im simply stating i understand preps POV

 

I understand his POV too. "too little too late", well, he even admitted to the majority clearly supporting the ban on cheats in FFG. So, even he probably slightly changed his POV as his POV is likely, "What is best for the majority?"

[JessicaSky]

We believe cheating is even more detrimental to activity

big tiem cheaters who use outrageous cheats usually get bored after a while and do something else or play legit for a while. and most people tend to cheat every now and then when they are bored or frustrated. sometimes you just have to let it go. it adds character to the community... i can sit and play along and pretend like im a good boy. or i can blatently slap you across the face and cheat. its up to you to be a big boy and deal with your personal bias towards the people who decide to cheat and are caught on a daily basis. cheating in a C&C game is really like prohibition. youre not gonig to EVER EVER EVER stop it all. EVER. but you will make a lot of man children cry.

 

cheating doesnt make people stop playing. just thought id throw that in there. you obviously dont play tiberian sun. it survives jsut fine with cheating going on since it came out. its part of the game to cheat.

 

when sean told me one day there would be a browser based tiberian sun game and i wouldnt be able to use my cheats i made for a split second it hurt my ego. then i realized i cheat every now and then in every game i play and i have limitless possibilities to cheat or jack up a browser based version of tiberian sun, lol.

 

I would love to see that RA2 ban list im sure its massive and im sure you make a lot of money getting people to buy new serials.

Edited by JessicaSky, 22 May 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[ZiGZaG]

big tiem cheaters who use outrageous cheats usually get bored after a while and do something else or play legit for a while. and most people tend to cheat every now and then when they are bored or frustrated. sometimes you just have to let it go. it adds character to the community... i can sit and play along and pretend like im a good boy. or i can blatently slap you across the face and cheat. its up to you to be a big boy and deal with your personal bias towards the people who decide to cheat and are caught on a daily basis. cheating in a C&C game is really like prohibition. youre not gonig to EVER EVER EVER stop it all. EVER. but you will make a lot of man children cry.

 

cheating doesnt make people stop playing. just thought id throw that in there. you obviously dont play tiberian sun. it survives jsut fine with cheating going on since it came out. its part of the game to cheat.

 

when sean told me one day there would be a browser based tiberian sun game and i wouldnt be able to use my cheats i made for a split second it hurt my ego. then i realized i cheat every now and then in every game i play and i have limitless possibilities to cheat or jack up a browser based version of tiberian sun, lol.

 

I would love to see that RA2 ban list im sure its massive and im sure you make a lot of money getting people to buy new serials.

 

He doesnt get people to buy new serials. People have 3 chances after that there not allowed to play regardless of a new serial. Being permanently banned and buying a new serial is peoples own choice, they know fine well its risking there own money.

[IngMonkey]

I agree to JessicaSky. Sometimes people get frustrated and just want to cheat in virtual world, because its not possible in real life.

 

Additionally, there is sometimes following happen in ffg:

 

One player spy himself and money hacks. The other gets angry and make yuri prime or presidents or DC or reconn. The first guy report the second, because its hard to prove self spy or money hacks without XGS.

 

Sometimes, players don't need to cheat to purposedly make others mad or suffer during the game, or provocate them to use bannable offence. Having stupid talk, be arrogant, using game voices excessively during whole game(happened to me quite a few times, its sometimes more annoying, than if sbdy uses maphack). Or even just behave plainly stupid - like attacking your own supposed ally.

 

I cheat occasionally, if somebody really makes me mad, or just DC, because some people deserve it. If i get reported or banned by one of those asses, i will simply just don't play, my world will not collapse, but game will have a player less. And with always less people there, the more leaving forewer, since they don't have time to wait forever for sbdy to join. Even in QM its getting frustrating and soon should be renamed to 'wait forever match'

 

No offence

[BlueBala]

I agree to JessicaSky. Sometimes people get frustrated and just want to cheat in virtual world, because its not possible in real life.

 

Additionally, there is sometimes following happen in ffg:

 

One player spy himself and money hacks. The other gets angry and make yuri prime or presidents or DC or reconn. The first guy report the second, because its hard to prove self spy or money hacks without XGS.

 

Sometimes, players don't need to cheat to purposedly make others mad or suffer during the game, or provocate them to use bannable offence. Having stupid talk, be arrogant, using game voices excessively during whole game(happened to me quite a few times, its sometimes more annoying, than if sbdy uses maphack). Or even just behave plainly stupid - like attacking your own supposed ally.

 

I cheat occasionally, if somebody really makes me mad, or just DC, because some people deserve it. If i get reported or banned by one of those asses, i will simply just don't play, my world will not collapse, but game will have a player less. And with always less people there, the more leaving forewer, since they don't have time to wait forever for sbdy to join. Even in QM its getting frustrating and soon should be renamed to 'wait forever match'

 

No offence

No offence but if you keep cheating you're going to get banned. No offence 

[KilerCam]

Cheating isnt ok in the real world, and it's not ok here either. I think if you want to "cheat" just play a mod map where everyone gets to have equal amounts of mods. I wont lie there are times I like a good mod map. 

[Pompski]

Cheating isnt ok in the real world, and it's not ok here either. I think if you want to "cheat" just play a mod map where everyone gets to have equal amounts of mods. I wont lie there are times I like a good mod map. 

 

Hacker 

Edited by Pompi, 27 May 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Petrenkovich]

I've got some wonderings about these cheating rules...

 

 

 

Mod Maps
XWIS/Strike-Team does not support friendly games on mod maps not released by XWIS, EA, or Westwood studios (...)

 

What if I am playing some custom maps that I or a friend created ourselves in Final Alert, and playing these just among ourselves?
 

 

Absolutely no use of cheats
Hacks, editors, trainers, mods, (...) modification...

 

What if I and a buddy are playing privately with a modified rules(md).ini file? These text rule sets files were made available for changing by Westwood and you can't use them to cheat against other players than the ones who've been given the same rule sets and installed them in their program directory, thus providing them the same conditions. Because if not, then the game would just be out of sync from the very start, just like a user running an outdated patch, versus a user with an up-to-date version of the game.

 

Regards,

Kammerat

Edited by Petrenkovich, 09 January 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Aro]

I doubt playing with friends using private mods/maps is a bannable offense, that would just be ridiculous since lots of mod leaders use XWIS to test them online with friends and staff members. If I am in fact mistaken, then a lot of people playing on lots of popular mod maps that are around today need banning... 

 

Oh, and also: 
 

 

Automatic Screen Shot Utility (XYR, XTS, XRA)

Using the AutoSS utility is compulsory if you are competing in the XWIS Tournament Ladder for a Hall of Fame spot.  This utility must be installed and run during the length of the ladder month. Playing select games without AutoSS will be result in HoF disqualification.

 

The Automatic Screenshot utility doesn't work for me and several other Windows 8 users, so does that mean we're all banned now? 

 

I am in full support of rule enforcement and I'm really pleased to see new methods are being approached, even though it's a little too late now, but the auto screenshot tool for example is brilliant despite the windows 8 faults. I think the rules need some more defining, the way they are currently expressed gives off the impression that modders are not allowed to play their mods, custom maps or mod maps online via XWIS in friendly non-ladder games, which, to be honest, is ridiculous.

Disallowing people to use trainers/cheats/hacks of any kind in friendly games is something I am glad is being done and enforced, but disallowing custom maps is a silly gameplay choice, IMO. Some of the most popular maps online are mod maps such as the oh-so-common Water Fort Oil / Beach Front. This won't help XWIS's number problem, at all. 

I may have just grabbed the wrong end of the stick here, but the way the rules are written definitely give off the impressions I've stated above.

 

Edit: I know this is an old thread, I just wanted to voice my opinion.

Edited by Aro, 09 January 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Petrenkovich]

I doubt playing with friends using private mods/maps is a bannable offense, that would just be ridiculous since lots of mod leaders use XWIS to test them online with friends and staff members. If I am in fact mistaken, then a lot of people playing on lots of popular mod maps that are around today need banning... 

 

I certainly hope so. It shouldn't be a bother, but the strictness of the rules makes me worry it might count for such games too.

[Olaf]

Playing mod maps is fine

[Bdizzle18]

I just saw a new player get banned; I think that the first post here needs to be edited with the following information clarified - then a mass PM should be sent to all players about the rules - and the in game lobby should tell people to read this.

 

WE NEED A COMPLETE LIST of Grey area tactics - exploits some may call them - things that are not REALLY cheating but some people MAY consider them a cheat.  I bet there are a LOT of these that I do not know about - I will make a nice numbered list here to start the ball rolling.

 

This list is really incomplete and not helpful with grey areas:

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=help&do=01&HID=32

 

LIST OF ACTIONS THAT WILL GET YOU BANNED:

1: Waypoint to Self Spy

2: Waypoint to use chronosphere without resetting timer

3: Any external program / trainer / map revealer

4: Invisible MCV

5: Reconnection errors

6: In a team 2 on 2 match - breaking alliance to spy each other should be considered a cheat. it is VILE (my opinion lol)

7: Breaking alliance to switch mcvs with another player / dual tech- or to restore them with a replacement mcv so they don't loose.  (makes people mad - but is not a cheat)

8: 'build anywhere' Dont do it- even if you can - its not what the game designers intended and you will get banned.

9: Double Wins = Banned   (What are these - does this mean you win more than one match against a certain player or by using a specifiv map?)

10: Time pushing = Banned  (What the heck is this?  http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/176703-frank-time-pushingbt32-02-03-2013/  )

11: Fast country switch = Banned  (What the heck?  I have a default country I play with - sometimes as host I will quickly change it and start the game - i only play comp stomps anymore so nobody complains but I had no clue this is considered a CHEAT and you can get BANNED for it?? REALLY???  http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/176638-google33-fast-country-switch-cheat/
12: Playing vs own clan = Banned  (Who else are you supposed to play against? I really dont understand this one at all - your clan members are your friends - the people you should play 90% of your games with...

 

 

QUESTIONABLE ACTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED

1: Using a chrono legionaire to defend a building or other unit to prevent it froM being damaged=

2: Using your ifv/chrono to erase your own spare paratroopers in order to make it elite? (takes 19 paratroops to equal one 3 chevron ifv - 3 miners or 2 refineries) is this a cheat? or a valid tactic? You are in essence BUYING an upgraded unit...

3: Forcing your planes to hover on a building until they get shot down - or selling your airforce to FORCE them to fall down onto a building for the purpose of destroying it...

4: Landing your airplanes on the ground with the ALT command after your airport was destroyed - so that you dont loose your jets.

5: Tonya (or any other instant blow up unit) in a waypoint circle forever blowing up a bridge so it cant be repaired and crossed...

6: When getting dual tech buliding units to earn money with cloning vat (makes everyone mad but is not really a cheat)

7: destroying civilian or tech buildings to get elite units (can be done instantly at the start of a game, you can have an elite tank or ifv with just a few destroyed buildings)

8: various tactics involving ivan bombs placed on units in transport vehicle or unusual combinations of ifvs and standard game units.

9: Changing Game Speed  = Host wants it speed 3 - opponent puts it on 6 - back and forth it goes until its going from 0 to 6 to 0 to 6 over and over.

Why isnt changing game speed a bannable offense?  I know lots of players who can NOT successfuly win at speeds higher than 4...  I know lots of players who refuse to play any slower than 6...  Often I see speed fights happening in games - especially for the looser who keeps slowing it down to speed 0 to try and punish the winner...

10: Spamming = How many of you have encountered a player who decides to smash his keyboard repeatedly at you for an hour after you've won - making it impossible for you to talk to your ally for the rest of your match...  Sure you can ban him once you get back to the lobby, but until then you are stuck.

 

All of thse are GRAY areas... they may be fair game - they may be considered exploiting - I personally do not even know if those things could earn a person a ban...  I simply refuse to play ranked matches - in fact I try to avoid fighting vs human players at all - so I hopefully wont have to deal with any future reports on myself... Comp stomps on mod maps or bust for me...  I'm not out to cheat anyone but there is a LOT of grey area out there...

 

Please Sticky reasons for being banned!  Give general examples of what NOT to do, and list as many random scenarios that may cause confusion.

 

Of course if any of those things I listed are against the rules - I would REALLY like to know because I dont think they are...  I think #2 on my list of cheats is one of the rarest things- I've only seen it done a handful of times and the other players in the game never notice... they are usually too busy to pay attention to the timers I guess...  but technically it may NOT be a cheat - it may be an allowable method...

 

I hope someone can address this post I'm leaving...

 

-Edited to add a bit, to clean up a mistake and to suggest that I would really appreciate a staff member to reply and confirm or deny my above statements to be true-

 

Edit #2

What are Double Wins?  I see that phrase in various cheat reports - is that a technical reference to a report made with gamespy - is it a reference to playing the same person multiple times in a ranked match? What does that mean?

 

Edit #3 adding #8 'build anywhere' above

 

Edit #4 adding more numbers above. 9-12 in cheats and 9-10 in questionable

Edited by Bdizzle18, 02 February 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[FReQuEnZy]

I just saw a new player get banned; I think that the first post here needs to be edited with the following information clarified - then a mass PM should be sent to all players about the rules - and the in game lobby should tell people to read this.

 

WE NEED A COMPLETE LIST of Grey area tactics - exploits some may call them - things that are not REALLY cheating but some people MAY consider them a cheat.  I bet there are a LOT of these that I do not know about - I will make a nice numbered list here to start the ball rolling.

 

This list is really incomplete and not helpful with grey areas:

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=help&do=01&HID=32

 

LIST OF ACTIONS THAT WILL GET YOU BANNED:

1: Waypoint to Self Spy

2: Waypoint to use chronosphere without resetting timer

3: Any external program / trainer / map revealer

4: Invisible MCV

5: Reconnection errors

 

QUESTIONABLE ACTIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED

1: Using a chrono legionaire to defend a building or other unit to prevent it froM being damaged=

2: Using your ifv/chrono to erase your own spare paratroopers in order to make it elite? (takes 19 paratroops to equal one 3 chevron ifv - 3 miners or 2 refineries) is this a cheat? or a valid tactic? You are in essence BUYING an upgraded unit...

3: Forcing your planes to hover on a building until they get shot down - or selling your airforce to FORCE them to fall down onto a building for the purpose of destroying it...

4: Landing your airplanes on the ground with the ALT command after your airport was destroyed - so that you dont loose your jets.

5: Tonya (or any other instant blow up unit) in a waypoint circle forever blowing up a bridge so it cant be repaired and crossed...

6: When getting dual tech buliding units to earn money with cloning vat (makes everyone mad but is not really a cheat)

7: Breaking alliance to switch mcvs with another player / dual tech- or to restore them with a replacement mcv so they don't loose.  (makes people mad - but is not a cheat)

8: destroying civilian or tech buildings to get elite units (can be done instantly at the start of a game, you can have an elite tank or ifv with just a few destroyed buildings)

9: various tactics involving ivan bombs placed on units in transport vehicle or unusual combinations of ifvs and standard game units.

 

 

All of thse are GRAY areas... they may be fair game - they may be considered exploiting - I personally do not even know if those things could earn a person a ban...  I simply refuse to play ranked matches - in fact I try to avoid fighting vs human players at all - so I hopefully wont have to deal with any future reports on myself... Comp stomps on mod maps or bust for me...  I'm not out to cheat anyone but there is a LOT of grey area out there...

 

Please Sticky reasons for being banned!  Give general examples of what NOT to do, and list as many random scenarios that may cause confusion.

 

 

The map hacker was banned for a ffg?  How are people to know if the map did not provide free radar?  I'm not good at reading those reports generated... never bothered to try actually - but I know a lot of the mod maps I play give free radar and map reveal scripts are built into a lot of them...  "Freespysat=yes is the actual map command that is programmed into the map ini somewhere...  I've added it to bunkers and mcvs and random things in maps here and there...

 

-Reeyo I enjoyed playing those comp stomps with you - sorry you got banned...  never self spy against people its just rude...  spying someone takes a lot of skill, effort and a little luck... succeeding in spying is my favorite past time... GETTING spied makes me madder than anything...  even if its a computer that gets me... I can only imagine how insanely mad a human would be if you spied yourself against him ....  I'd suggest you apologize sicne you probably didnt know any better being new at this... I know you JUST learned that trick recently lol

 

Of course if any of those 9 things I listed are against the rules - I would REALLY like to know because I dont think they are...  I think #2 on my list of cheats is one of the rarest things- I've only seen it done a handful of times and the other players in the game never notice... they are usually too busy to pay attention to the timers I guess...  but technically it may NOT be a cheat - it may be an allowable method...

 

I hope someone can address this post I'm leaving...

 

Promote this guy to staff. Best post of 2014. Unfortunately it's going to stay as the best post for the rest of the year.

[Bdizzle18]

I was hoping for some more input but will happily accept your thanks... lol

 

I was kinda hoping for more of a list of 'bad things people do' - I don't know all the cheats - hacks - exploits - I dont NEED to know them all - and I can see why posting them all in one list may make some nervous we went over this in my wow guild - giant lists of things you can and cant do in raids... what a nightmare it was)

 

Here it should be pretty easy... I spent a few minutes looking through cheat reports... trying to get a feel for what is good or bad...

 

 

-you replied to that before I had even finished editing it... I moved the switching mcvs up to a cheat - and added breaking alliance to spy each other -

 

6: In a team 2 on 2 match - breaking alliance to spy each other should be considered a cheat. it is VILE (my opinion lol)

7: Breaking alliance to switch mcvs with another player / dual tech- or to restore them with a replacement mcv so they don't loose.  (makes people mad - but is not a cheat)

 

also asked what is a Double win

 

-and now I just found another odd report about some guy building a pill box where he couldnt have possibly built it - google tells me thats just a glitch in the game - no trainer required... something like that should definately be listed as a DONT DO THIS even though you CAN...

 

so:

8: dont 'build anywhere' - even if you can - its not what the game designers intended and you will get banned.

 

I'll keep editing my post to add new info as its presented - kinda like a wiki post but only I get to fix it... lol

 

Anyone have something to teach me - Frequenzy - does that mean you agree with what I listed as a cheat vs not a cheat?

 

 

Edit 1:

Adding some info- I've gone through seven pages of cheat reports and I'm done for the day...  I'm sure some of you have seen other things that you can list for me. - I've NEVER heard of some of these things - I have NO CLUE what they are - and some of them sound like things anyone could accidently do.

 

9: Double Wins = Banned   (What are these - does this mean you win more than one match against a certain player or by using a specifiv map?)

10: Time pushing = Banned  (What the heck is this?  http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/176703-frank-time-pushingbt32-02-03-2013/  )

11: Fast country switch = Banned  (What the heck?  I have a default country I play with - sometimes as host I will quickly change it and start the game - i only play comp stomps anymore so nobody complains but I had no clue this is considered a CHEAT and you can get BANNED for it?? REALLY???  http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/176638-google33-fast-country-switch-cheat/
12: Playing vs own clan = Banned  (Who else are you supposed to play against? I really dont understand this one at all - your clan members are your friends - the people you should play 90% of your games with...

 

 

Questionable:

9: Changing Game Speed  = Host wants it speed 3 - opponent puts it on 6 - back and forth it goes until its going from 0 to 6 to 0 to 6 over and over.

Why isnt changing game speed a bannable offense?  I know lots of players who can NOT successfuly win at speeds higher than 4...  I know lots of players who refuse to play any slower than 6...  Often I see speed fights happening in games - especially for the looser who keeps slowing it down to speed 0 to try and punish the winner...

 

10: Spamming = How many of you have encountered a player who decides to smash his keyboard repeatedly at you for an hour after you've won - making it impossible for you to talk to your ally for the rest of your match...  Sure you can ban him once you get back to the lobby, but until then you are stuck.
 

 

Someone please comment on all my points here. Thanks. - I will edit this into my above post.

Edited by Bdizzle18, 02 February 2014 - 03:50 AM.

[dsector]

I don't think you can promote your units by killing your own units or structures.

 

Nobody ever got banned for the actions in your "gray area" so that should answer about half your questions.

[BlueBala]

The rules were announced in the lobby every 15 minutes for a month straight before enforcing them

[Bdizzle18]

The rules were announced in the lobby every 15 minutes for a month straight before enforcing them

 

This does not help me. I stopped playing for almost a year - plus countless other new people show up all the time and dont know this kindre  of stuff - some of the things listed in the BANNED section are VERY confusing - even for me - and I've been around this game for over TEN YEARS.

 

When joining the forum people should get a PM with a direct link to these rules -and they should be laid out in a very easy to read and understand way.  Or when signing up for an account here you can have the website terms of service include these rules - or a link to them.

 

 

They are not HARD to find if you spend 15 minutes looking for them - if you know your way around a web forum...

 

BlueBala - can you explain any of the questionable things I posted up there or share your opinion of my gray area topics - or add some new things NOT TO DO to the list?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Bdizzle18, 02 February 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[ZiGZaG]

I don't think you can promote your units by killing your own units or structures.

 

Nobody ever got banned for the actions in your "gray area" so that should answer about half your questions.

 

You can with certain units. Although his figures are slightly wrong 

 

[tbiol]

.

Edited by tbiol, 02 February 2014 - 08:13 PM.