39 replies to this topic

[freaky]

I play allies and have always wanted to have both black eagles and paratroops. Hence recently I made a mod giving all the allied special units to America and all soviet special units to Russia. 

 

I have never played online, and am not a xwis player, I only play occasionally with friends. But I've always liked to read forums regarding the game. From what I read, Iraq have always been the dominant fraction having desolators and strong rhinos against the allies. However, now that I have combined all the special units into 1 fraction, it seems that allies would be the dominant fraction, since they now have access to snipers+tank destroyers, which rapes against any infantries or tanks. Would allies now be too OP?

 

Will desolators become useless and hence soviet suffering in the late game against mass mirage? Will tank destroyers just destroy the rhino army? IC demolition truck? How will Yuri do against the new Allies and Soviet who owns every of its special units? 

[Mikoz]

Like u said yourself, sov only usefull faction is Iraq while allies have paradrop/eagles/sniper and canon (wich can be usefull at some occasions)

So apart from the early begin were sov can still dominate i think allies would be a bit overpowered.

 

Destroyers suck btw and IC a demo truck can be ownage but from my experience you wont face situations were you would use it. better to IC rhino/dread/drones.

[Drasten]

Basicly its like this. All soviet special units except for desolators sucks. They arent useless but the function they fill can be filled by other, more suited units.

 

Tesla tanks are expensive and is worse then rhinos/some dogs and connies.

 

Terrorists can be replaced by ivans and engineers, they do a better jobb.

 

Demo trucks can be replaced by ivans in flaks.

 

So the soviet country would basicly only benefit from desolators, making the new sov country just very slightly better then iraq.

 

The allieds on the other hand befenits from all their special units. Tankdestoryer 3 shoots rhinos, grand cannons are just awsome in alot of situations, snipers rape late game, paras own, eagles own aswell.

 

So the allied player would befenit from all the special units, making the new allied country better then soviet in both early and late game, since in early game allied will dominate with eagles/airdrops grizzlys and dogs, while in middle and late game they would dominate even harder with cannons, snipers, airdrops, tank destroyers and eagles, all coming into play.

If you wanna balance the game, here is what you should do:

 

Soviet changes:

- Tesla trooper health increased by 10%

- Terrorist health and damage slightly increased (about 10%) their death no longer set up a chain reaction where if one terrorist get killed, nearby friendly terrorists doesnt explode.

- Tesla tank range increased by 1.

- Lybian truck damage and blast radius increased by about 25%, also cost is reduced by 100.

 

Allied changes:

- Tank destroyer rate of fire increased by about 10%

 

 

Well thats my opinion anyway.

Edited by Drasten, 30 March 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[ZiGZaG]

Im pretty sure this already exists. Think piscenex did it.

[Crisis]

Should do all units the same, but sovs get allied abilities and allies get sov abilities

[Pompski]

Search for 1.007 patch, it is a perfect ra2.

[Drasten]

well ive heard for example he nerfed grand cannon? france is barely used and less viable then usa/korea on high level of play, This one change is enough for me to think that he doesnt have enough game knowledge to make it more balanced. Nerfing a special unit of a country that is barely used is NOT balancing. Its would be comparable to increasing tankdestroyers cost to 1.000 and call it balance, its not, its retarded.

Edited by Drasten, 30 March 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[DylHole]

"- Lybian truck damage and blast radius increased by about 25%, also cost is reduced by 100."

YOU CRAZY NIGGA

[dsector]

well ive heard for example he nerfed grand cannon?

From what I remember, he actually reduced the damage of the grand cannon in his patch.

[freaky]

I have an idea. I shall make tesla tanks chargeable by tesla troopers, just like tesla coil. Then it has extra range and damage, becomes a powerful seige unit.

[Drasten]

From what I remember, he actually reduced the damage of the grand cannon in his patch.

 

Yea and that single change makes him incompetent in making a more balanced game, if a country is rarely used on a high level of play (france) then it shoudnt be nerfed. The idea with a balance patch is making all units usable and all country special units about as good but they fill different functions, in my mind the countries that doesnt qualifiy for this is russia, germany, lybia and cuba, and its those countries that needs a little bit of improvement.

One good way of seeing which countries are best and worst is checking the stats, from them we can see that usa, iraq korea, gb and france is used alot. The countries that are less used needs their special units improved.

 

26902x 26008x 12526x 9178x 4993x 1787x 1600x 1127x 1109x

.

Edited by Drasten, 31 March 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[dsector]

Here is the 1.007 patch if anyone wants to read about it:

http://www.blackassassins.org/pisc/readme.htm
http://www.blackassassins.org/pisc/piscrule.htm

Edited by dsector, 31 March 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[XXxPrePxX]

Drasten -- there are other, not so obvious, reasons why france is unused.

 

Strategically, France's cannon is only useful in about 30% of situations depending on map, spot, situation. However when it is useful it is the most overpowered tool in the game. To give a quick example, on yuris revenge, Yuri vs. France on Offense defense, france will go quick cannon and destroy yuri by walking through them. Or Face Down in yuris revenge where it is france vs. another allied team. I am sure there are other ra2 maps but I cannot name them at this time.

 

Secondly, on a player basis france is not looked upon highly. Players using france are often treated as 'newbs' or not proper playing.

 

Third, no matter how weak or strong you make the cannon it's not going to change the fact that it is a defensive weapon. Yeah -- it can be used offensively in certain situations as pointed out above, but realistically it is a defensive weapon in a game where offense reigns supreme. No nerfing or strengthing it will change the outcome drastically.

To illustrate my point: France is pretty strong on a map like Isle of War where you can camp with it and your opponent will have no chance of straight attacking you. But on a map like Defcon 6 if you tried this out, the opponent would own 85% of the map.

I can tell you one more thing too:

 

Yea and that single change makes him incompetent in making a more balanced game,

 

Saying Piscinex is incompetent is the wrong thing to do. If there was one person to 'balance' this game, it would be him -- and many say he has done it with this 1.007 patch.

[Drasten]

Drasten -- there are other, not so obvious, reasons why france is unused.

 

Strategically, France's cannon is only useful in about 30% of situations depending on map, spot, situation. However when it is useful it is the most overpowered tool in the game. To give a quick example, on yuris revenge, Yuri vs. France on Offense defense, france will go quick cannon and destroy yuri by walking through them. Or Face Down in yuris revenge where it is france vs. another allied team. I am sure there are other ra2 maps but I cannot name them at this time.

 

Secondly, on a player basis france is not looked upon highly. Players using france are often treated as 'newbs' or not proper playing.

 

Third, no matter how weak or strong you make the cannon it's not going to change the fact that it is a defensive weapon. Yeah -- it can be used offensively in certain situations as pointed out above, but realistically it is a defensive weapon in a game where offense reigns supreme. No nerfing or strengthing it will change the outcome drastically.

To illustrate my point: France is pretty strong on a map like Isle of War where you can camp with it and your opponent will have no chance of straight attacking you. But on a map like Defcon 6 if you tried this out, the opponent would own 85% of the map.

I can tell you one more thing too:

 

 

 

Saying Piscinex is incompetent is the wrong thing to do. If there was one person to 'balance' this game, it would be him -- and many say he has done it with this 1.007 patch.

 

I dont think grand cannon should be altered at all though, even if not that many people on xwis use france its still a good country, for example on qq atleast 50% (even the good players) use france, and they are generally better at it then xwis players since they use it very often, maybe even more then we use iraq.

 

As I said before the special units that needs buffing is: terrorist, lybia truck, tank destroyer and tesla tank.

 

Among the normal units i only think tesla trooper and maybe chrono legioneer shall recieve a relativly small buff. Maybe 10% more hp to them both or something like that.

Edited by Drasten, 31 March 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[Seke]

I play allies and have always wanted to have both black eagles and paratroops. Hence recently I made a mod giving all the allied special units to America and all soviet special units to Russia. 

 

I have never played online, and am not a xwis player, I only play occasionally with friends. But I've always liked to read forums regarding the game. From what I read, Iraq have always been the dominant fraction having desolators and strong rhinos against the allies. However, now that I have combined all the special units into 1 fraction, it seems that allies would be the dominant fraction, since they now have access to snipers+tank destroyers, which rapes against any infantries or tanks. Would allies now be too OP?

 

Will desolators become useless and hence soviet suffering in the late game against mass mirage? Will tank destroyers just destroy the rhino army? IC demolition truck? How will Yuri do against the new Allies and Soviet who owns every of its special units? 

 

A modder by the name of Martin (FreQuenzy) made a mod that had only 2 factions, america and iraq, each having all the spec units of allied or soviet, respectively. He however did adjust the units to balance it out, contact him to get the mod.

[Crisis]

I dont think grand cannon should be altered at all though, even if not that many people on xwis use france its still a good country, for example on qq atleast 50% (even the good players) use france, and they are generally better at it then xwis players since they use it very often, maybe even more then we use iraq.

 

As I said before the special units that needs buffing is: terrorist, lybia truck, tank destroyer and tesla tank.

 

Among the normal units i only think tesla trooper and maybe chrono legioneer shall recieve a relativly small buff. Maybe 10% more hp to them both or something like that.

meh, I think it should be altered but not in the way stated. The reason why no one uses France is because most of the time it's not worthwhile to build a cannon anyways, they cost way too much in money and power. I would have reduced the cost in both of those, but also reduced damage and increased range. (basically make it like a better prism tower with some splash damage instead of concentrated damage)

[freaky]

As much about balancing. How do u guys think I can balance up the SvY match up late game? What should I give to soviet for it to stand a chance?

[ZiGZaG]

Nothing. SvY late game is pretty balanced untill the ore runs out. Then the mutator wins the game.

Mabye make the mutator timer longer?

Edited by ZiGZaG, 02 April 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[tbiol]

I dont think grand cannon should be altered at all though, even if not that many people on xwis use france its still a good country, for example on qq atleast 50% (even the good players) use france, and they are generally better at it then xwis players since they use it very often, maybe even more then we use iraq.

There is no Quick match on QQ, therefore they can pick the map (Heck) and be france.  On any wide open map, as stated over and over, France and really good QQ players end up losing to map control.  Unless of course they are successful in getting an engineer in to your base.

 

With QM, you cannot be France, because (as already stated) it isn't suitable for many maps in QM

[Seke]

There is no Quick match on QQ, therefore they can pick the map (Heck) and be france.  On any wide open map, as stated over and over, France and really good QQ players end up losing to map control.  Unless of course they are successful in getting an engineer in to your base.

 

With QM, you cannot be France, because (as already stated) it isn't suitable for many maps in QM

 

some "pro" qq players have all lost to me 1 v 1 as iraq vs france even on heck

 

2v2 is diff story though.

 

I agree with you, I'm just saying to Drasten.

[OlafxD]

dont talk bad about france

 

miss the good old days where me n my bro would pick france and work on tactics.

 

such a isle of war, build hq str8 after ref, rockie to scout, move mcv up to hill (2nd level) build down n destroy base from behind

may day, get chopper, take over hospital n destroy base from behind

off b you just cant win a good france, move mcv str8 at start and build towards gems/base.

 

i agree, on most of the maps they arent that usefull, but still was fun to work on new tactics and they actually were very strong on some maps/situations

 

p.s. you have to adjust your playing when playing as france, if you play it the same way like you play america/korea it wont work out.

i also think that an aggressive france is way better than a defensive france, such as stretchs - taking over gem/ore spots, etc..

[freaky]

Nothing. SvY late game is pretty balanced untill the ore runs out. Then the mutator wins the game.

Mabye make the mutator timer longer?

I guess I'm just too bad at this game that I dont harass enough with desos. Coz when i play with my friends, we usually end up building up an army, and I usually play allies, so this style works. But when we end up playing soviet, its just impossible to combat a late game mass gatt+mag+mm army. Perhaps I should give soviet some anti-mind control units?

 

Edit: Oh and i forgot to mention, we usually play pretty big maps.

Edited by freaky, 02 April 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Crisis]

I guess I'm just too bad at this game that I dont harass enough with desos. Coz when i play with my friends, we usually end up building up an army, and I usually play allies, so this style works. But when we end up playing soviet, its just impossible to combat a late game mass gatt+mag+mm army. Perhaps I should give soviet some anti-mind control units?

 

Edit: Oh and i forgot to mention, we usually play pretty big maps.

Are you using seige choppers? One thing I noticed since I started playing yuri's again is that all the sov players are actually using seige a lot in late game, kind of funny because sovs start out really aggressive and then become really campy once allies/yuri tech. 

[ZiGZaG]

The bigger the map the easier the game vs yuri, imo unless u include the naval factor, to make yuri balanced ainstnd fair to play against either increase the timer of the mutator or make it blow up after so many uses :-)

[Drasten]

some "pro" qq players have all lost to me 1 v 1 as iraq vs france even on heck

 

2v2 is diff story though.

 

I agree with you, I'm just saying to Drasten.

 

Yea i dont daubt that, but the top qq players are still very good with france, and i bet you do struggle vs them 1v1 on heck, even if ya usually win.

 

My point is that grand cannons shouldnt be nerfed, since france already is worse then america and maybe korea on alot of maps. Maybe a modification that reduced grand cannons firepower abit and health while reducing building cost and power needed would be okay. But not a straight up nerf.