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Destroyers vs submarines


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#1 Olaf

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

How does one counter destroyers as soviets before a battlelab is available, on maps like Depth Charge and Lake Blitzen?
Defending the side dericks seems impossible, destroyers can harrass your main base and they can fire while retreating.

#2 SpecialDe

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

subs and flak boats 2:1 ratio of that should work effective

#3 Seke

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:20 PM

^. subs and a couple scorpions

#4 Olaf

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

That's easier said than done. Destroyers can be build without radar, scorpions can't. Destroyers also seem faster so they can easily retreat.

#5 tbiol

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:42 AM

On Depth Charge, mass subs and build a tight base

On Lake Blitzen, I can't remember the last time I've played a soviet player

#6 Seke

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

That's easier said than done. Destroyers can be build without radar, scorpions can't. Destroyers also seem faster so they can easily retreat.


you should be going for radar anyways, and you need subs first as well, so you aren't losing any time, couple subs, they get couple destroyers, then you plop down radar and make some scorpions.

on a side note, i'm not sure what making your sea scorpions defend ur subs would do but it might make it easier to control.

indeed, destroyers are faster, but they can't have their airplane land while moving.

tips:

ctrl shift subs almost always and avoid coasts

#7 Defend

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:23 AM

The submarines are stronger than the destroyer. On depth charge its depends on if supers are on or not because nuke/weather device and chronosphere own on depth charge. All the mass navy games i Seen mass dolphins lose to mass subs. And mass beat mass destroyers. A combination of dolphins and destroyers is the way to beat sov.

Sov just mass mass mass subs and get dread when the water is cleared. Scorpion for rocketeers and planes Shootin the yellow planes is not a big deal because dolphins will slice your scorpions in 2! So soviet is stronger but allies is more flexible and has rockets and planes over water. And if you get a lead in dolphins they can stop you from even making a navy yard all together cuz they are fast and rape with HIIGH FP

Just dont build near land so destroyers dont shoot you. For example on bottom on lake blitzen they shoot when you move to gems if you build a refinery or anything near the water.

And mass destroyers beats mass dolphins in RA2 In yuris i think dolphins are stronger .. IM not really positive but it I think so. Mass dolphins might beat mass destroyers in yuris but its opposite in ra2 I think. Because i lost on alaskan oil spill mass dolphins vs mass destoyers a few times over the last few months.. And dolphins can regenerate with hospital in yuris but even without it i think they are a stronger and considered infantry like the GI how it is also stronger in yuris

#8 ExpaNd

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:44 AM

If u have alot of money build flak canons by your oils if its such a problem. "safe zones" for your subs

#9 AlliedPlayer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

subs + scorpions working together means that when the destroyers planes come to attack your subs, the flak shoots them down and the subs are unharmed, but shoot the destroyers,.......

unfortunately subs are ridic slow, but scorpions and destroyers are much quicker.

#10 Seke

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

dolphins > submarines if and only if you have many dolphins... because dolphins subsonic wave pulse attack thingy can attack through several things, so if you got 20 dolphins fighting 10 subs but ur firing ur dlphins thru the subs then its as if you had probably 30 dolphins because their attack is being used on more than 1 sub.

also, since subs take up 2 cells, if you are attacking through the sub in a longitudinal way then the attack is also doubled... similar to how if you attack "through"a naval yard the damage dealt is like x 4

#11 AlliedPlayer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

but olafs question is for subs vs destroyers...... so before tech :) but yes dolphins > all navy

#12 Olaf

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:41 PM

similar to how if you attack "through"a naval yard the damage dealt is like x 4

Yeah, that's kinda ridiculous.
I'll try harder with subs, but soviet navy seems underpowered.

#13 Drasten

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Dont forget that desolators own dolphins, so if you ever get the chance, deso those dolphins, they will drop about as fast as mirages.

#14 tbiol

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

or you could think about it this way, there are only really 2-3 people who go very hard with destroyers on those two maps. So, if you just call it a game and quit in the beginning, you'll save yourself the trouble of having to learn how to play a game where you can't engineer eat.

#15 AlliedPlayer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:24 PM

or you could learn it n become a better overall player :)

#16 Crisis

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:07 PM

Yeah, that's kinda ridiculous.
I'll try harder with subs, but soviet navy seems underpowered.

Sovs can be pretty disadvantaged once allies have dolphins, but if you move your subs the right way (similar to rhinos) then you've got a much better chance against dolphins, deso deployed at your navy helps too.

#17 Olaf

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

or you could think about it this way, there are only really 2-3 people who go very hard with destroyers on those two maps. So, if you just call it a game and quit in the beginning, you'll save yourself the trouble of having to learn how to play a game where you can't engineer eat.

Funny you'd say that, I was accused yesterday of engi 'eating' when someone hovered his craft through my tanks on Lake Blitzen. But that's off topic, stop going off topic.

#18 Seke

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:57 PM

subs are stronger at the beginning and on a map like depth charge you can easily deso dolphins at least once somewhere in a game there and insta-kill 10 + dolphins... Plus Dreadnaught > aircraft carrier in most situations

#19 Crisis

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

*every situation, air craft carriers are garbage...

#20 Seke

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

*every situation, air craft carriers are garbage...


nah, when flak is in the game air craft carriers almost always do some kind of damage, so in that sense they are more useful, plus they have a better chance to attack moving units

#21 Defend

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

@ Seke. SO the dolphin has to be directly in front of the sub and it does double damage? WHy does mass subs always beat mass dolphins in the games i seen?

#22 Seke

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

@ Seke. SO the dolphin has to be directly in front of the sub and it does double damage? WHy does mass subs always beat mass dolphins in the games i seen?


no, it has to attack thru it, example: let D = dolphin --> = direction of fire and X where the fire is hitting. Also, let oo be the sub

D --> XO (letting it attack by itself = normal damage)
D--> OO X (firing THROUGH the sub long way = 2x damage)
D--> OO OO X 2 x damage for each sub, both subs get hurt)

To answer your question, for it to be even there needs to be 2 dolphins for every sub, going 1 vs 2, sub is still stronger, what makes dolphins better is the fact that their attack can attack multiple subs at once, which requires micro

#23 zMarsHz

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:00 AM

@ Seke. SO the dolphin has to be directly in front of the sub and it does double damage? WHy does mass subs always beat mass dolphins in the games i seen?

in an easier answer, because the guy who mass dolphin didn't surround the subs, and fought head on

in a game like Water Fort Oil, unlimited cash, subs are superior in masses, however in a real game when there is logical spending, subs have no chance, the build rate is much too slow, and the cost is much too high.

in a sense, on ra2 (not yr) a sov player must really really really try to tech first or get somewhat of a "lucky" and i mean that lucky chance the allieds slips up, otherwise is generally a fail game

#24 Rocker219

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:34 AM

in an easier answer, because the guy who mass dolphin didn't surround the subs, and fought head on

in a game like Water Fort Oil, unlimited cash, subs are superior in masses, however in a real game when there is logical spending, subs have no chance, the build rate is much too slow, and the cost is much too high.

in a sense, on ra2 (not yr) a sov player must really really really try to tech first or get somewhat of a "lucky" and i mean that lucky chance the allieds slips up, otherwise is generally a fail game


I dont think a fast tech will do a sov player much good :\ unless in certain situations.

For example on depth charge. I feel the soviet should concentrate more on taking the mid, getting up 3 harvs and going constant sub/scorpian

On alaskin oil spill i think an early tech into mass subs will do justice. But always making sure that they have at least 3 harvs on ore while holding ground as best as possible with dericks. Even with the fast dred. I would only assume the best way to use it would be to destroy allied derricks. Forcing a 3 sov harv vs a 3 allied harv. Which I feel would make the game in favor or sovs.

But alaskan oil spill should be removed anyway. It all comes down to who gets that ore island :@

Edited by Phoenix123, 22 December 2012 - 02:34 AM.


#25 Olaf

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

in a sense, on ra2 (not yr) a sov player must really really really try to tech first

A single aegis cruiser counters dreads so teching first isn't very effective.

On alaskin oil spill i think an early tech into mass subs will do justice.

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