99 replies to this topic

[PiNeRs]

So.... im gonna be hard busy for a while so i wont be on ra2 so i took some time to do something i always wanted to do for u nerds. Dont get me wrong i am a huge ra2 fan and always will be i just dont think the game is balanced. The reason i am an allied player is because i think they are harder and are the underdog and more fun. Thats why i switched.


Here is an analytical guide and comparison of the allied vs soviet match up from everything ive learned over the years.

The soviets are a brute force faction that are all about timing and postioning. The allies are the complete opposite-- they are indirect, inovative and quick. On paper, the two factions seem even because the set of smal advantages the sov have at certain times for being brute-forcey is compensated for by the options of the allies. (ore pure, spy, paras, planes, ect.) Because the differences between the two are so severe, what it bares down to is the map selection. Some maps favor soviet, some favor allies. There are a few however, that are quite even. Surely most quick match maps do favor sov and with the new map patch it does seem more even. But, and this is a very big but, with close anaylzation one can clearly see that the soviets are a better faction.

1. Rhino vs grizly.
Its not the superior armor or superior attack. What makes the Rhino tank a better unit is its superior range. It is true that grizley tanks are more numerous and more agile but this is essentially negated in most situations when soviet uses proper tank control. Surely rhino vs grizzlies is a cat and mouse game in that the allied player wants to time the sov right and get in close and surround the rhinos while the soviet player tries to keep the proper distance and keep tanks in a compact group. Because of this range adv, the amount of grizzles that can be lost upon trying to engage or retreat is severe. Therefore, in tank battles soviets are in control; it is extremely risky for the allied player to both go for a battle and to retreat from one. This does not mean allies can not win a tank battle--they can. But they are at an intrinsic disadvantage.

2. Power plant
A somewhat unspoken advantage the soviets have is the extra second or two that they get at the begining of the game due to the fact that the power plants take different times to build. In addition to going up in time, they also go up economically saving 200 credits in the process. This does not seem like much but at high level play 1.5 seconds and 200 credits is an unnessecary advantage. This fundementally limits the rush of the allied player while simultanesously increasing the rush of the soviet-- the first grizly tank comes out at the same time the first rhino tank comes out. The fact that the allied power gives u more power is completely irrelevant because it isnt enough to actually make a difference later on in the game. Even if it did make a difference, it still would be a disadvantage because of just how valuable those first few minutes are.
Oh, and Nuclear reactors get u endless power for only 1,000 credits..... wow.

3. Rushes
Combing the two points made above makes it obvious why soviets have a much better rush threat. They have the same amount of tanks as griz early in the game and have more range so can pressure a base very easily. The sov can force quite a few pills therefore going up even more economically or even WIN just from this threat alone, a threat the allies simply do not posess. Also, perhaps more importantly, the soviets can do rush builds and not sell the conyard and fail completely with the rush and still be in the game while if the allied intial rush is silenced they are plain dead.

4. Miners
The soviet miner has more range then a pillbox, moves almost as fast as a rhino tank, owns infantry and has the armor of a WARFACTORY. Ladies and gentlemen, its a freakin' MINER and....its a THREAT. ITS A MINER!!!! Ok im almost dead....hold on let me bring my PORTABLE SENTRY -GUN-WARFACS. Also, war miners can hold there own vs small griztank splits. Yeh the allied miner can teleport to saftey and thats great....but it CANT GO WIN A GAME now can it?

5. Desolators
Desos sound like something thats being advertised on a TV commercial thats too good to be true. Except these things literally are too good.
Introducing the desolator. They can make an entire army retreat from attacking ur base! They can make an entire army move out of the way so u can go kill miners! They can cut off an entire angle of tank splits! They can cancel any para drop! They can own mirage! they can own prisms! they can own grizzles! they can even own planes!. They have ALOT of REGENRATING armor for only 600 credits! Does the allied have something cheap to sit somewhere and make it impossible to attack their base? No, they do not! Can the allied make ur entire army retreat with something cheap? No, they can not. Do the allies have the possibility of going in and destroying ur entire army with something other than their entire army? No, they can not. On top of it, the deso is an absolutely BEAST fodder unit. It takes so many hits, does good damage, owns infantry for almost no charge at all! The allied have absolutely no counter part to this whatsoever. The closest counterpart would be the rocketeer, a 600 credit unit that doesnt kill armies or make u retreat. 2 flack tracks can own 10 rocckies while 2 desos can own 10 mirage. Call now and you will recieve this offer for only 600 credits a piece. Use the most imbalanced unit in any RTS ever made for only 600 credits. CALL NOW.

6. Superweapons
I stand corrected: the desolator is not the most imbalaned thing in any rts game ever made.... The iron curtain makes units invunerable....excuse me, IT MAKES UNITS FREAKIN INVUNERABLE. Invunerablitiy mode? Is this game serious? The iron curtain is in no way fair whatsoever. (vs allies).The reason for this is that the allied counter, the chronosphere, is in no way anywhere near as good. First off the sphere takes a significantly longer cooldown to use. Why? Nobody knows. 2nd off. The chronphere is actually harder to use vs ur openents units beacuse of how choppy it is. Ever try to send moving rhino tanks into the water? Not so easy is it? Meanwhile the iron curtain u can garuantee 9 invul rhino tanks every time driving up to kill ur chorno. So not only is the IC just flat out better then the sphere it actually completely negates it. The extra time u have ot use it combined with, well, sheer INVINCIBILITY allows u to go into a base and, well, destroy whatever u like including the chronopshere.
The nuke is slightly better then the storm because its more direct.

7. Chrono legionaires cost......1500 credits. This is too expensive to use on most maps/situations. Yes i know i know, the same can be said about the apocs tank. But here is the thing,. If chornos were more usable it wouldnt even make too much of a difference because a deso can kill all of them. Miners own them. Flak traks own them, drones own them, dogs mixed with rhinos own them. But if the apoc was more versitle...theres almost no way to take it out when its with desos as is.... let alone if it was a cheapr unit. It just doesnt add up.

8. Deso/apoc combo
Nuff said.

9. Laming
Both allied and sov have engi threat but sov have drone+engiflak combo. Early rhino tank and warminer are better at alting buildings because they do more damage. Both can engi eat but sovs can do it with a drone. (rocketeer gets killed by flak and ealry afc puts u behind with tanks anyway).
Sovs are also better at ANTI laming. Drones intercept ifv and miners can kill engis.

10. Micromanagement
Red alert 2 is a fast paced game and requires alot of precision. It is very easy to make a mistake and lose; thats what makes it fun. But the soviets simply have less to mircomanage then the allies because they not only have less units in terms of numbers, but also less types of units to control. Therefore, they are naturally less inclinced to make a mistake.

11.Camping
Either faction can camp if they so chose. However the soviets do not have to invest much on camping because their tanks are superior and they are usually massing tanks anyways because thats what they do. So the soviet army compistion is perfect for camping-- if they so choose. The allies on the other hand do no have this luxory. In order to camp they need to set up a specific postion with paras and or alot of dogs and pillboxes or even prism towers because they are quite often not just spending all of their resources on tanks....


12. Attacking
Sovs control when the game ends most of the time. This is because the tanks are so much better so they essentially get to chose where and when to attack whereas the allied can really only "pressure" and split and the sorts and, yet again, try to set up advanatage. Its as if the soviet has to make a mistake for the allied to win where the soviet can just win with allied making no mistakes.

13. Navy threats
The dreadnaught is a significantly larger intial threat then that aircraftcarrier. They can kill buildings in one hit while u need 2 accs for that job. So the sov doesnt need to win the navy battle to have a navy threat-- they just have one. The sov can hold off allied double ACC for long enough before its even a threat. This, on some maps, makes the allied spend just as much or even more money then the sov on anti air. Surely dolphins are better at running around at canceling navy yards and destroyers are great but all said and done, most of the time getting enough navy to hold off to get 2accs costs you the ground game vs rhinos. It can be done but its just easier for the soviet.

13. Late game
The allied, in alot of cases do indeed have a better late game. Paradrops are free, spies, ore pures and navy finally comes into play, etc. However, red alert is a very fast paced game and usually doesnt go that late most games. Not to mention most maps do not favor end-game situations anyway (see goldenstatefreeway and urban rush). The problem is GETTING to an advantagous late game. A spy is 1600 credits with ifv. One drone can take it out if seen for only 500, and the drone lives. The ore pure takes alot to get to, let alone let set in. 2000 for the blab, 2500 for the orepure, and 1600 for the 2 extra power plants. And then ur eco STARTS. Meanwhile the sov just built 3 more warfacs and is splitting. Good luck holding. It is very difficult for the allied to set up an advantage vs an expert sov. The sov has to miss something. A split for miner, a spy, messes up TC, misses a para, etc. If both play correctly, the soviet player should theoretically win majority every single time, and thats assuming its a fair map and most favor sovs as it is.

14. 2vs2
Both allied and soviet are very good in 2on2. There is a big HOWEVER.
Two sovs vs Two allies is fine. (favors sovs slightly)
One allied and one sov vs two sov is also fine. (slightly favors sovs)
HOWEVER, One allied and one sov vs two allies is NOT fine. Huge adv. for that side that has flak to counter air.




In conclusion soviets are better at tank fights, have better fodder, have a time and money advantage, are better at rushing, are better at stoping rushing, are better at laming, are better at stopping laming, have better miners, are better at killing armies with only one unit, are better at cuttin off angles, have better superweapons, have a greater intial navy threat, have equal air threat on certain maps, have easier job for micromanging units, can camp better, can set up an attack better, can run away better, can engage better.
Allies have, sometimes, a better late game in a game thats very fast paced and rarely goes into late game.

The score is
Soviets
14

[Niek]

TLDR

[BeHumble]

very well said sir francis

Edited by BeHumble, 28 August 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[OlafxD]

frank bro, its 2012, stop arguing/complaining about something which has been done 10 years ago 100000000000000000000000000000 times.

allied isnt stronger, neither weaker, it just requires a different style of playing.

[BeHumble]

tomi give me a rhino tank vs a griz tank. give me an apoc vs a griz mirage or prism hell it could probably kill all 3, 1 v 3, and also keeping in mind it can shoot down air also.

Edited by BeHumble, 28 August 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[OlafxD]

that comparison made me laugh, since what you're basically trying to say is: balanced means to you if all ground units have the same damage and no other units can outdamage another, sounds like a hella interesting game.

not to talk about your comparison doesnt make any sense at all since the costs are different.

anyways, dunno why i bother..

[SpecialDe]

tomi if u can get rank 1 with allies, with as few loses as the ones in your sig, then i will believe allies are even to sov. playing good players like tim, michel etc

[OlafxD]

well, the offer comes to a wrong time ^. not to talk about allieds isnt my style of playing, i prefer sovs over allieds any day (esp. 1v1).

this just has been discussed a million of times in the past, the game is 12 years old, get over it. if you dont like it then you're free to play another game, noone says you have to play an "unbalanced" game, yet you do it.

also, there has been an interesting topic by edd recently which i very liked, about top allied players switching to sovs and totally failing (and thats mainly the players which always have been arguing/whining over the factions being "unbalanced").

FYI ive been rank 1 allieds on the YR WOL ladder with much more competition than nowadays, and also as yuri a tons of times. just to prove you its possible with any faction.
noone will prove me different, ill always stick to my opinion, which is: requires a different style of playing.

Edited by Tomi, 28 August 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[SpecialDe]

well, the offer comes to a wrong time ^. not to talk about allieds isnt my style of playing, i prefer sovs over allieds any day (esp. 1v1).

this just has been discussed a million of times in the past, the game is 12 years old, get over it. if you dont like it then you're free to play another game, noone says you have to play an "unbalanced" game, yet you do it.

also, there has been an interesting topic by edd recently which i very liked, about top allied players switching to sovs and totally failing (and thats mainly the players which always have been arguing/whining over the factions being "unbalanced").

FYI ive been rank 1 allieds on the YR WOL ladder with much more competition than nowadays, and also as yuri a tons of times. just to prove you its possible with any faction.
noone will prove me different, ill always stick to my opinion, which is: requires a different style of playing.

i know your the pro, legend, best, and everything
But yr is easier for allieds.
Ra2 it is way harder. I can switch games, idc, im just saying its not balanced. ( just saying your wrong!!!!) I have fun with allieds i think
edited for tomi the great

Edited by SpecialDe, 28 August 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[OlafxD]

thank you, i know. and its legend btw

[DrVanNostrand]

so op is just a rant about sov being overpowered ? cmon son.

[Seke]

and also as yuri a tons of times. just to prove you its possible with any faction.

lol..

allied is weaker vs soviet but you exagerate a lot of things, and i think one of your main arguments works two ways, you say that because allies have to control so much/have many options it hinders their game play, which i udnerstand, but what their greatest weakness is also their greatest strength!

dumbest thing is 7minute chronosphere and gun on soviet miner

deso is completely necessary in the game its jus a bit OP, if soviet didnt have deso then allieds would dominate on a lot of maps

[killjake2]

The factions are not overpowered what so ever sorry bud. The MAP decides which faction is overpowered for the MAP. You should know this

[Edd]

so op is just a rant about sov being overpowered ? cmon son.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[SoVsOrDiE]

Good gawd, kids eh Tomi? ;|

If I had a £/€/$ for everytime I have read a topic like this I would defo have bought my own pet Deso by now!

Allies are 'different' and everyone knows it! Just play and have fun instead of massively overthinking things all the time. Every single game is different, just learn to adapt to different dituations and allies are a force to be reckoned with!

OMG YOUR JET JUST DROPPED TWO BOMBS, ALLIES ARE MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED! :\

[BeHumble]

^ this can be controlled which also takes more skill, the allied player works just as hard as the soviet does. requires more macro, control, patience, and excellent timing.

well, the offer comes to a wrong time ^. not to talk about allieds isnt my style of playing, i prefer sovs over allieds any day (esp. 1v1).

this just has been discussed a million of times in the past, the game is 12 years old, get over it. if you dont like it then you're free to play another game, noone says you have to play an "unbalanced" game, yet you do it.

also, there has been an interesting topic by edd recently which i very liked, about top allied players switching to sovs and totally failing (and thats mainly the players which always have been arguing/whining over the factions being "unbalanced").

FYI ive been rank 1 allieds on the YR WOL ladder with much more competition than nowadays, and also as yuri a tons of times. just to prove you its possible with any faction.
noone will prove me different, ill always stick to my opinion, which is: requires a different style of playing.

too bad we're not talking about yuris, game play is slower, allies are more balanced there, and a good eco is easier to establish there..hof with yuris...now you want to talk about an OP faction hahahah

[ZiGZaG]

So.... im gonna be hard busy for a while so i wont be on ra2 so i took some time to do something i always wanted to do for u nerds. Dont get me wrong i am a huge ra2 fan and always will be i just dont think the game is balanced. The reason i am an allied player is because i think they are harder and are the underdog and more fun. Thats why i switched.


Here is an analytical guide and comparison of the allied vs soviet match up from everything ive learned over the years.

I completly disagree about the soviet miner having a gun being a bad thing. Otherwise SvS would just be mass miner droning.
The soviets are a brute force faction that are all about timing and postioning. The allies are the complete opposite-- they are indirect, inovative and quick. On paper, the two factions seem even because the set of smal advantages the sov have at certain times for being brute-forcey is compensated for by the options of the allies. (ore pure, spy, paras, planes, ect.) Because the differences between the two are so severe, what it bares down to is the map selection. Some maps favor soviet, some favor allies. There are a few however, that are quite even. Surely most quick match maps do favor sov and with the new map patch it does seem more even. But, and this is a very big but, with close anaylzation one can clearly see that the soviets are a better faction.

1. Rhino vs grizly.
Its not the superior armor or superior attack. What makes the Rhino tank a better unit is its superior range. It is true that grizley tanks are more numerous and more agile but this is essentially negated in most situations when soviet uses proper tank control. Surely rhino vs grizzlies is a cat and mouse game in that the allied player wants to time the sov right and get in close and surround the rhinos while the soviet player tries to keep the proper distance and keep tanks in a compact group. Because of this range adv, the amount of grizzles that can be lost upon trying to engage or retreat is severe. Therefore, in tank battles soviets are in control; it is extremely risky for the allied player to both go for a battle and to retreat from one. This does not mean allies can not win a tank battle--they can. But they are at an intrinsic disadvantage.

2. Power plant
A somewhat unspoken advantage the soviets have is the extra second or two that they get at the begining of the game due to the fact that the power plants take different times to build. In addition to going up in time, they also go up economically saving 200 credits in the process. This does not seem like much but at high level play 1.5 seconds and 200 credits is an unnessecary advantage. This fundementally limits the rush of the allied player while simultanesously increasing the rush of the soviet-- the first grizly tank comes out at the same time the first rhino tank comes out. The fact that the allied power gives u more power is completely irrelevant because it isnt enough to actually make a difference later on in the game. Even if it did make a difference, it still would be a disadvantage because of just how valuable those first few minutes are.
Oh, and Nuclear reactors get u endless power for only 1,000 credits..... wow.

3. Rushes
Combing the two points made above makes it obvious why soviets have a much better rush threat. They have the same amount of tanks as griz early in the game and have more range so can pressure a base very easily. The sov can force quite a few pills therefore going up even more economically or even WIN just from this threat alone, a threat the allies simply do not posess. Also, perhaps more importantly, the soviets can do rush builds and not sell the conyard and fail completely with the rush and still be in the game while if the allied intial rush is silenced they are plain dead.

4. Miners
The soviet miner has more range then a pillbox, moves almost as fast as a rhino tank, owns infantry and has the armor of a WARFACTORY. Ladies and gentlemen, its a freakin' MINER and....its a THREAT. ITS A MINER!!!! Ok im almost dead....hold on let me bring my PORTABLE SENTRY -GUN-WARFACS. Also, war miners can hold there own vs small griztank splits. Yeh the allied miner can teleport to saftey and thats great....but it CANT GO WIN A GAME now can it?

5. Desolators
Desos sound like something thats being advertised on a TV commercial thats too good to be true. Except these things literally are too good.
Introducing the desolator. They can make an entire army retreat from attacking ur base! They can make an entire army move out of the way so u can go kill miners! They can cut off an entire angle of tank splits! They can cancel any para drop! They can own mirage! they can own prisms! they can own grizzles! they can even own planes!. They have ALOT of REGENRATING armor for only 600 credits! Does the allied have something cheap to sit somewhere and make it impossible to attack their base? No, they do not! Can the allied make ur entire army retreat with something cheap? No, they can not. Do the allies have the possibility of going in and destroying ur entire army with something other than their entire army? No, they can not. On top of it, the deso is an absolutely BEAST fodder unit. It takes so many hits, does good damage, owns infantry for almost no charge at all! The allied have absolutely no counter part to this whatsoever. The closest counterpart would be the rocketeer, a 600 credit unit that doesnt kill armies or make u retreat. 2 flack tracks can own 10 rocckies while 2 desos can own 10 mirage. Call now and you will recieve this offer for only 600 credits a piece. Use the most imbalanced unit in any RTS ever made for only 600 credits. CALL NOW.

6. Superweapons
I stand corrected: the desolator is not the most imbalaned thing in any rts game ever made.... The iron curtain makes units invunerable....excuse me, IT MAKES UNITS FREAKIN INVUNERABLE. Invunerablitiy mode? Is this game serious? The iron curtain is in no way fair whatsoever. (vs allies).The reason for this is that the allied counter, the chronosphere, is in no way anywhere near as good. First off the sphere takes a significantly longer cooldown to use. Why? Nobody knows. 2nd off. The chronphere is actually harder to use vs ur openents units beacuse of how choppy it is. Ever try to send moving rhino tanks into the water? Not so easy is it? Meanwhile the iron curtain u can garuantee 9 invul rhino tanks every time driving up to kill ur chorno. So not only is the IC just flat out better then the sphere it actually completely negates it. The extra time u have ot use it combined with, well, sheer INVINCIBILITY allows u to go into a base and, well, destroy whatever u like including the chronopshere.
The nuke is slightly better then the storm because its more direct.

7. Chrono legionaires cost......1500 credits. This is too expensive to use on most maps/situations. Yes i know i know, the same can be said about the apocs tank. But here is the thing,. If chornos were more usable it wouldnt even make too much of a difference because a deso can kill all of them. Miners own them. Flak traks own them, drones own them, dogs mixed with rhinos own them. But if the apoc was more versitle...theres almost no way to take it out when its with desos as is.... let alone if it was a cheapr unit. It just doesnt add up.

8. Deso/apoc combo
Nuff said.

9. Laming
Both allied and sov have engi threat but sov have drone+engiflak combo. Early rhino tank and warminer are better at alting buildings because they do more damage. Both can engi eat but sovs can do it with a drone. (rocketeer gets killed by flak and ealry afc puts u behind with tanks anyway).
Sovs are also better at ANTI laming. Drones intercept ifv and miners can kill engis.

10. Micromanagement
Red alert 2 is a fast paced game and requires alot of precision. It is very easy to make a mistake and lose; thats what makes it fun. But the soviets simply have less to mircomanage then the allies because they not only have less units in terms of numbers, but also less types of units to control. Therefore, they are naturally less inclinced to make a mistake.

11.Camping
Either faction can camp if they so chose. However the soviets do not have to invest much on camping because their tanks are superior and they are usually massing tanks anyways because thats what they do. So the soviet army compistion is perfect for camping-- if they so choose. The allies on the other hand do no have this luxory. In order to camp they need to set up a specific postion with paras and or alot of dogs and pillboxes or even prism towers because they are quite often not just spending all of their resources on tanks....


12. Attacking
Sovs control when the game ends most of the time. This is because the tanks are so much better so they essentially get to chose where and when to attack whereas the allied can really only "pressure" and split and the sorts and, yet again, try to set up advanatage. Its as if the soviet has to make a mistake for the allied to win where the soviet can just win with allied making no mistakes.

13. Navy threats
The dreadnaught is a significantly larger intial threat then that aircraftcarrier. They can kill buildings in one hit while u need 2 accs for that job. So the sov doesnt need to win the navy battle to have a navy threat-- they just have one. The sov can hold off allied double ACC for long enough before its even a threat. This, on some maps, makes the allied spend just as much or even more money then the sov on anti air. Surely dolphins are better at running around at canceling navy yards and destroyers are great but all said and done, most of the time getting enough navy to hold off to get 2accs costs you the ground game vs rhinos. It can be done but its just easier for the soviet.

13. Late game
The allied, in alot of cases do indeed have a better late game. Paradrops are free, spies, ore pures and navy finally comes into play, etc. However, red alert is a very fast paced game and usually doesnt go that late most games. Not to mention most maps do not favor end-game situations anyway (see goldenstatefreeway and urban rush). The problem is GETTING to an advantagous late game. A spy is 1600 credits with ifv. One drone can take it out if seen for only 500, and the drone lives. The ore pure takes alot to get to, let alone let set in. 2000 for the blab, 2500 for the orepure, and 1600 for the 2 extra power plants. And then ur eco STARTS. Meanwhile the sov just built 3 more warfacs and is splitting. Good luck holding. It is very difficult for the allied to set up an advantage vs an expert sov. The sov has to miss something. A split for miner, a spy, messes up TC, misses a para, etc. If both play correctly, the soviet player should theoretically win majority every single time, and thats assuming its a fair map and most favor sovs as it is.

14. 2vs2
Both allied and soviet are very good in 2on2. There is a big HOWEVER.
Two sovs vs Two allies is fine. (favors sovs slightly)
One allied and one sov vs two sov is also fine. (slightly favors sovs)
HOWEVER, One allied and one sov vs two allies is NOT fine. Huge adv. for that side that has flak to counter air.




In conclusion soviets are better at tank fights, have better fodder, have a time and money advantage, are better at rushing, are better at stoping rushing, are better at laming, are better at stopping laming, have better miners, are better at killing armies with only one unit, are better at cuttin off angles, have better superweapons, have a greater intial navy threat, have equal air threat on certain maps, have easier job for micromanging units, can camp better, can set up an attack better, can run away better, can engage better.
Allies have, sometimes, a better late game in a game thats very fast paced and rarely goes into late game.

The score is
Soviets
14

U mention deso's being overpowerd quite a lot. Have u as an allied player ever realised the power of a spy? 1 spy can change a game way more than 1 deso, wether it goes into a warfac, barracks, ref, lab, radar. Ye the spy and ifv be can seen and stopped by 1 drone. But the deso bomb in a flack costing 3500 can be stopped by 2 planes..

In what world are sovs more effective at laming?

engi+flack and drone is counterd by 1 pillbox and 1 unit to distract the drone.. U ever tryed playing as sovs and having a double engi ifv come at you early game? Allied tanks are faster and can get onto your warfactory a lot quicker to alt.

As for miner's the allied miner's collect ore in half the time due to the chrono ability. Even though they dont hold as much ore this is still more or less balances them out..

[zMarsHz]

how is allieds underpowered, as an allied player am i like the only one that thinks this is false?

i suggest whoever thinks allieds is underpowered start using the follow things

1.) puri
2.) spy
3.) rockie splits
4.) legionairs (after puri, doesn't matter there cost)
5.) 2 prisms in the middle of griz army

you need to learn to utilize all your units, stop doing griz vs rhinos and mass dogs all the time, and stop crying how allieds are underpowered.......

as for tomi getting rank 1 with allieds, that has been done, as for marko, that has been done, the amount of allieds to sovs rank 1 are probably in favor of the sovs, that is because more people used sovs, doesn't neglect the fact, that some very great players used allieds.

and allieds in qm vs top sovs, not extremely hard, i find ava to be much worse of a game

[OlafxD]

Good gawd, kids eh Tomi? ;|

If I had a £/€/$ for everytime I have read a topic like this I would defo have bought my own pet Deso by now!

Allies are 'different' and everyone knows it! Just play and have fun instead of massively overthinking things all the time. Every single game is different, just learn to adapt to different dituations and allies are a force to be reckoned with!

OMG YOUR JET JUST DROPPED TWO BOMBS, ALLIES ARE MASSIVELY OVERPOWERED! :\

+1

[cncpossessed]

This isn't an analytic guide of SvA...just some whining goodbye post lols.

[Seke]

U mention deso's being overpowerd quite a lot. Have u as an allied player ever realised the power of a spy? 1 spy can change a game way more than 1 deso, wether it goes into a warfac, barracks, ref, lab, radar. Ye the spy and ifv be can seen and stopped by 1 drone. But the deso bomb in a flack costing 3500 can be stopped by 2 planes..

In what world are sovs more effective at laming?

engi+flack and drone is counterd by 1 pillbox and 1 unit to distract the drone.. U ever tryed playing as sovs and having a double engi ifv come at you early game? Allied tanks are faster and can get onto your warfactory a lot quicker to alt.

As for miner's the allied miner's collect ore in half the time due to the chrono ability. Even though they dont hold as much ore this is still more or less balances them out..

spy is hard to get (and pull off) in most games a v s whereas getting a deso is possible in any map. Although, I won't argue with a spy being incredibly powerful!

2 ifv engi rush comparison isn't really equivalent. A better argument would have been to say although a sov can drone an mcv allied can make engi-ifv to repair.

in terms of getting money allied and soviet miner are "about" equal, depending on how you view it. If the distance traveled is greater than x amount of cells then allied miner is > soviet miner. However, due to wasted travel time to and from the ore if the distance is < x then soviet miner is superior. Also, I would like to say that this difference is negligible.

The main argument was the soviet miner's superiority in defense and armor, it has greater armor and has a gun.

how is allieds underpowered, as an allied player am i like the only one that thinks this is false?

i suggest whoever thinks allieds is underpowered start using the follow things

1.) puri
2.) spy
3.) rockie splits
4.) legionairs (after puri, doesn't matter there cost)
5.) 2 prisms in the middle of griz army

1. puri is incredibly powerful, I agree, it increases all cash flow by 50%, however Frank also stated this and his rebuttal was that it is rare to be able to pull this off on most maps.

2. spy is extremely good, yah, totally agree. Really hard to pull off though but if you get it in its a game changer!

3. idk this is dumb, rockie split is equivalent to tank split only rockie is easier to stop. You can argue that rockie is more maneuverable, I agree, however they also do less damage and have significantly less health than a tank.

4. legionnaires are very good on a few maps but don't help much unless you have > 3 (imo) and are only beneficial in high eco/mid-large sized maps.

5. I guess. elite prism is defo OP

[Curatio]

I play both factions. No one faction is better then the other.
Early game = sovs favor
Mid Game = anyones favor
Long game = Allied favor

All balanced if you ask me.

Deso overpowered? Dude iraq is 1 side of soviet. GB Counters iraq fine.

France, america, korea, Great britain are awsome factions, what does sov have?

Iraq. Thats it.

Both are well balanced.

Edited by Curatio, 30 August 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[zMarsHz]

1. puri is incredibly powerful, I agree, it increases all cash flow by 50%, however Frank also stated this and his rebuttal was that it is rare to be able to pull this off on most maps.

2. spy is extremely good, yah, totally agree. Really hard to pull off though but if you get it in its a game changer!

3. idk this is dumb, rockie split is equivalent to tank split only rockie is easier to stop. You can argue that rockie is more maneuverable, I agree, however they also do less damage and have significantly less health than a tank.

4. legionnaires are very good on a few maps but don't help much unless you have > 3 (imo) and are only beneficial in high eco/mid-large sized maps.

5. I guess. elite prism is defo OP

i can pull puri off in most maps, something like defcon or urban or off a, rush maps, no probably not, however the majority of maps in qm now are able to be teched on.

[ExpaNd]

2 pillboxes and 1 unit or wall > engi+drone flak
Purifier=> cloning vats
Sniper/rocketeer/plane >deso
Grizzly+plane > rhino?
Dolphins+destroyers => subs+scorpion
Tanya(s)>mass fodder
Legionare>cliffs
Spy+warfac=griz > rhino
Spy+barracks=rocketeers >elite
Spy+radar(+gap?)=splits/pressure/camp
Spy+ref=free units/cheap s.w.
Eng ifv > drone+damage
Tanya ifv > fodder/important structure(s)
Prism tank> sentry/pillbox
Mirage> grizz
Aegis cruiser>air+dreadnought/carrier

Lol nowhere near complete but eh

Edited by ExpaNd, 30 August 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[YelIowish]

Ore purifier gives extra 25% and doesn't work when you're low on power. It costs 2500 + 2 x 800 = 4100.
4100 / 25% = 16400 (the number of $ you need to gather to get ore purifier's costs back)
16400 / 500 = 32,8 (allied miner's unloading gives 500 - the number of unloadings you need)
32,8 / 6 ~ 5,5 (let's say you have 6 miners - the number of unloadings that every miner has to do)
5,5 * 15 seconds = 82,5 seconds (let's assume every miner moves, mine and unload for 15 seconds).
So you have to build 3 buildings (or 4 if you have no battle lab yet), let's say 60 seconds, and wait another ~80 seconds to regain your investment. You stop making refs and war factories. Soviet at the same time can build 2 (or 3, if we count allied battle lab) refineries and get 33% (6 miners + 2 more, or 50% - 6 miners + 3 more) eco growth. Or just be satisfied with his eco and spend $ at tanks. He has 140 seconds advantage.
140 seconds in RA2 game?
ETERNITY