Jump to content


Photo

Ra2 : Book of Knowledge


  • Please log in to reply
135 replies to this topic

#101 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 29 July 2015 - 04:53 PM

No, because I said 9.9/10 times its bad.


9.9 times its a bad idea.



#102 DrVanNostrand

DrVanNostrand

    Colonel

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5114 posts

Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:35 PM

Lol at afc first being good in depth...
The only advantage of that is to kill opponents engies.
And cmon, u dont need to kill opponents engies in depth to win with allieds :Ddd

#103 Chrono69x

Chrono69x

    Black Assassin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2417 posts
  • Location:Colorado Springs, Co
  • XWIS Name: Chrono69x

Posted 30 July 2015 - 07:43 PM

I think when this game was less refined, people could get away with afc first. but after everybody really started fine tuning their builds, and the average skill level went up, the practicality of going afc first went right out the window in at least 99% of situations



#104 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 03 August 2015 - 03:57 AM

Playing against noobs doesn't count.


Pulled it off against many ppl, plus why would I use it as one of my strategies if it didn't work? Afc before WF is definitely effective if you know what you're doing on the particular map..mine being tour b & South Pacific. + afc early on sp gives you early pressure advantage.

Edited by BeHumble, 03 August 2015 - 04:04 AM.


#105 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 03 August 2015 - 12:22 PM

Going AFC and having it work does NOT mean it is better than getting WF first, and all those maps WF first is better.



#106 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 04 August 2015 - 07:11 PM

Okay. I never said it was better to do this. I'm saying if done right it is effective. But if I am Korea and I make two planes and six Rockies + antiscout..if done right you can do a lot of damage. Even with America (2 planes) the economy on South Pacific is phenomenal so you can pull a BO like this off and be safe even if you don't kill them the idea is the early pressure and keeping that pressure to pick off their oils etc. back & forth constant pressure & you will open up gaps. Furthermore by the time you have countered my air I will have a WF and 1 - 2 tanks by that time and you will have 3-4 tanks which you have to put on hold to make AA - even if you place a flak cannon or pat in your base you still have to have mobile AA and you will have spent 1k for base AA or $600-$1000 for mobile AA. Otherwise it's suicide for your tanks. all the while I never stopped my tanks from continuous building so at this moment the game is in my hand or even.

This is normally how it plays out. Some players would have a keen intuition or skills to see what I was doing but it wasn't very often, maybe 20% of the time it was countered.

Edited by BeHumble, 04 August 2015 - 07:18 PM.


#107 Chrono69x

Chrono69x

    Black Assassin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2417 posts
  • Location:Colorado Springs, Co
  • XWIS Name: Chrono69x

Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:10 PM

Fun fact: I had a qm on pinch point today - america vs iraq. I tried going afc first, just for shits and grins.  The other guy wasn't a bad player by any means, but didn't strike me as great either. But, as if to illustrate Seke's point, I definitely got beat. Upon reflection, I concluded that i should've either went war first then miner, or war first then still no miner. but both scenario's result with me getting my war fac up before my afc


Edited by Chrono69x, 05 August 2015 - 09:10 PM.


#108 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 05 August 2015 - 11:57 PM

Well considering the map..pinch point is a bad map to go afc first on.
Soviets have a huge adv on pinch point
This is making me wanna play really bad lol

#109 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 07 August 2015 - 12:48 AM

Fun fact: I had a qm on pinch point today - america vs iraq. I tried going afc first, just for shits and grins.  The other guy wasn't a bad player by any means, but didn't strike me as great either. But, as if to illustrate Seke's point, I definitely got beat. Upon reflection, I concluded that i should've either went war first then miner, or war first then still no miner. but both scenario's result with me getting my war fac up before my afc

 

WF and miner, or just move mcv which is easy way and probably going to win half the time



#110 PiNeRs

PiNeRs

    2v2er

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 770 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia, USA
  • XWIS Name: djaningar

Posted 09 August 2015 - 08:41 AM

I'm a firm believer in early AfC. Got many wins vs top sov with it. The entire purpose of it is to use it on on RARE occasions. (like once every 3 series vs same player). It can work on any map that has both many resources as well as multiple areas to attack and or easy to antiscout. Ofc if we tested it, mason would defend because he knows its coming.

 

Maps it works often on

 

-Alaskan oil spill

-depth charge

-artic circle

-invasion confirmed

-tourney B

-south pacific

-sovereign land

-city under siege

-cold war

-stormy weather

-isle of war

-mayday

-bull run

-Alaskan outback

-another cold day

-thin ice

-glowing waters

 

-any 2v2 game.



#111 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 09 August 2015 - 04:22 PM

^.^ precisely sir.



#112 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 09 August 2015 - 07:41 PM

Any good soviet player is going to have you scouted... If they don't have you scouted they should be hovering over your base to listen for rockies. Any top soviet player does this.


You're basically risking everything on maybe winning



#113 PiNeRs

PiNeRs

    2v2er

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 770 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia, USA
  • XWIS Name: djaningar

Posted 10 August 2015 - 08:45 AM

I observed sam win with it vs Edd on heck BvB 1v1 few weeks ago. 

I just beat Dan today with it on tourny B. 

Fell victim to it myself few days ago vs paf on coldest peak. 

Early afc works on occasion, like i said. 



#114 game1

game1

    Lieutenant

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 987 posts

Posted 10 August 2015 - 04:27 PM

Matt is very good at going early afc as korea

#115 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 11 August 2015 - 02:25 AM

The essence of it is the surprise.

#116 tRiPPy

tRiPPy

    cool

  • XWIS Buddies
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2469 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • XWIS Name: tRipPy

Posted 11 August 2015 - 09:18 AM

The essence of it is the surprise.

there is no surprise though, he either scouts your base and sees the afc first or hovers over your base and listens for the rocky / plane sounds like seke said. probably works because people aren't used to seeing afc first in 1v1 and don't react accordingly.



#117 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:59 PM

Due to the unexpectancy of the strategy..aka surprise. Don't rally the Rockies..as frank said - if we test it you would clearly know it's coming so it's ultimately due to unexpectancy. Any good soviet would never expect that after a few games.

Edited by BeHumble, 11 August 2015 - 06:34 PM.


#118 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 11 August 2015 - 07:54 PM

Yeah, but if soviet DOES see it or even sees it late... still pretty easy to stop and in most situations you're likely going to be behind after that... even if you kill power and force a couple flak cannons or something.



#119 ExpaNd

ExpaNd

    RanDoMiZer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3828 posts
  • Location:Merrillville, IN
  • XWIS Name: ExpaNd

Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:16 PM

Yeah, but if soviet DOES see it or even sees it late... still pretty easy to stop and in most situations you're likely going to be behind after that... even if you kill power and force a couple flak cannons or something.


For example on sotuh pacific...
I believe having 2 early paradrops going 0 tanks and pressing with rockies to attack power/force canon or two flak traks at the least, can sometimes be enough compensation

#120 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 11 August 2015 - 08:57 PM

still not as good as getting WF first for miner



#121 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 12 August 2015 - 04:55 AM

Yeah, but if soviet DOES see it or even sees it late... still pretty easy to stop and in most situations you're likely going to be behind after that... even if you kill power and force a couple flak cannons or something.

This doesn't add up. The allied would be equal with the soviet. You have to stop your tanks and make flak to leave your base. Planes will attack your flak(s) as they come out your WF. You're going to need 2+ cannons. + pp. There is no way the soviet will be ahead.

still not as good as getting WF first for miner

Duh. AFC before WF does work more than 9.9/10 times. It works, I've done it so many times with Korea.
& on a map like South Pacific you don't need to go miner out of WF.

Edited by BeHumble, 12 August 2015 - 04:49 AM.


#122 tRiPPy

tRiPPy

    cool

  • XWIS Buddies
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2469 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • XWIS Name: tRipPy

Posted 12 August 2015 - 06:15 AM

This doesn't add up. The allied would be equal with the soviet. You have to stop your tanks and make flak to leave your base. Planes will attack your flak(s) as they come out your WF. You're going to need 2+ cannons. + pp. There is no way the soviet will be ahead.

are you assuming the sov player goes 0 miners? if he goes 2 miners after fac he will have 4 miners to your 2 by the time your factory is even up. (i'm guessing you go pp / rax / ref / afc / ref / fac) even if you forced 3 cannons you're still well behind.

 

 

Due to the unexpectancy of the strategy..aka surprise. Don't rally the Rockies..as frank said - if we test it you would clearly know it's coming so it's ultimately due to unexpectancy. Any good soviet would never expect that after a few games.

you're suggesting a good sov player isn't going to check / listen for air first because its an uncommon strategy?


Edited by tRiPPy, 12 August 2015 - 06:28 AM.


#123 Seke

Seke

    C&C Tournament Organizer

  • Help Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6692 posts

Posted 12 August 2015 - 03:06 PM

Lol, just because it works doesn't mean going WF first isn't BETTER.



#124 BeHumble

BeHumble

    Here & There

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2902 posts
  • Location:USA, south carolina
  • XWIS Name: LooKaUFO

Posted 12 August 2015 - 04:06 PM

If the soviet goes 2 miners he's dead in the first 5mins.
No pp bar refin afc WF refin refin pp refin. + 2 oils + para. I'd want the sov to go two miners.

#125 tRiPPy

tRiPPy

    cool

  • XWIS Buddies
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2469 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • XWIS Name: tRipPy

Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:45 AM

If the soviet goes 2 miners he's dead in the first 5mins.
No pp bar refin afc WF refin refin pp refin. + 2 oils + para. I'd want the sov to go two miners.

your economy is completely broken half way through you're 2nd refinery if you are going 6 rockies / 2 eagles with that build as mentioned in your earlier post. how do you intend to draw even with a soviet player when you've been on 1 miner for so long unless you're able to cripple him with your initial group of rockies / planes? a good sov is going to have a cannon ready at the very least with another on the way and you're going to lose some air if they're placed at the right time.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users