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#26 Olaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:16 PM

Could you use normal quoting and reply below the quote?

I think the old way was working, just have the proper amount of staff to handle it.

We've been having issues with cheat reports since forever. What do you mean by it was working?

2. It wouldn't hurt to ask but like everyone is saying, I doubt anyone will openly plead guilty. I don't like the idea of them receiving a higher ban if they say they're not guilty either.

Why not? Is lying ok?

#27 BornL33T

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

Personally i find the players who give excuses about the Auto SS are simply not interrested in fair play,i have 1mb connection and an ancient pc with a pirated copy of Win XP but i didn't found any problem to put the Uploader working.

Edited by DayDream, 07 February 2012 - 01:34 PM.


#28 tbiol

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:38 PM

The question: If someone admits to cheating, should their be a reduced sentence?

The example: Brent clearly fogged for over 6 months. Denied it for those six months. Unknowingly had the auto ss uploader upload a fogged screen shot. Says, oh yeah, "i admit I fogged"

Does this example lessen the level of guilt? Does this person deserve a reduced sentence?

My point, each report has to be looked at on an individual basis, no matter what.
___________________________
Players given the ability to mark up a report as **suitable for actioning**,

This is an excellent idea.
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Furthermore: perhaps a cheat report that does not follow the guidelines gets immediately thrown out. Or have minimum requirements. But the basic stuff, like game stats, a screen shot, an xgs replay. Also warn the reporter for insufficient data in post. Please refer to "how to make a cheat report"
______________________________

Jokujak means: He likes the process of proving cheat reports. The problem is the time it takes to resolve them.

#29 Melodyn

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:59 PM

to solve the problem of bad reports you can have only certain games reportable, eg: those in which auto ss uploder was used.

now, throw in xgs, which is uploaded and added to the stats page at the very end of a game. and there u have almost everything u need.

this should be enough to easily beat those who make laser men or map reveal.

then there is some annoying guys who do disconnect orgies when they lose. perhaps some kind of flight play data recorder could be invented to also reliably get rid of those. maybe even record chat vs players who say bad things... dont like those. :(

its sure possible but u have to figure out of course.

ps, but i like the idea of calling players to explane themselves, like police do when some1 complains against u. :D u have often such problems too? but this requires calling the players which adds work over and over and over. who will play the police??? i think thats not the best path. i have reported some1 who dc me 10+ times last month, nothing... :(

#30 rumblesom

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

1) Adding more staff seems like a good idea, providing you can find unbiased, knowledgeable and consistently active volunteers.

2) What is your criteria for determining how various arguments reflect the outlook of the community? Taking account of the level of community support seems the only way to ensure a well-recieved outcome.. Even as frustrating as it can be at times, I feel these decisions should mostly align with the community's preference.

3) I choose not to use the SS taker because I find my computer cannot handle it. Whenever (even with the most recent xwis.dll) I use the patch, my game lags badly and my computers fan is running non-stop. This is not the case without it. Also, without any personal veto option and an obscene number of mostly mediocre new maps, I elect to forgo the whole lot. If the SS taker becomes mandatory and continues to necessarily enable new maps, I would highly recommend a much smaller number and better selection.

#31 koreamigx

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 02:58 PM

i vote josh and tibol as of right now..

#32 XWISMOSTWANTED

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:13 PM

add new stuff(admin) cheatreport analyzer to strike team.

#33 NeoGrant

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:33 PM

Have (new) staff do a quick review to ensure the report is sane and meets all requirements.

We had that program already with bounty hunters? Maybe a select few from there should be given edit rights to correct a report? Awaz was in charge with this.

Message the reported player and ask/require him to respond and explain.

So long as this is automated and can be actioned by an analyser?

If he pleads guilty, mark as proven. Goto end.

There have been a few who put their hands up and admit, but what if the evidence isn't there to backup the ban? We just go on their word?

If he doesn't, analyze as before.

We will be back at square 1 with this, the majority of reports need to be analysed, there aren't active analysers to process, backlog begins

There's always a need to show support... How else will you know towards what the community has a negative or a positive outlook?
Also if some one says what you wanted to say then you will quote them.

Warnings for not breaking the rules reduces your credibility as an admin, but I'm quite sure you don't care about that at all.

Prep makes a response to the topic. Seke just quotes it, its not useful.

#34 fir3w0rx

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

My idea:
1. Have (new) staff do a quick review to ensure the report is sane and meets all requirements.
Analysis takes the most time (and knowledge)
What do you think?

Hire/recruit new staff to assess reports to see which ones are ready for analysis and which ones aren't. I like it, sort of like a 'trainee' position.

If I'm understanding correctly, after a few months, when or if Olaf, Knit, Grant agrees that the trainees are ready, they can be promoted to full-blown Cheat-Report Analysers with the authority to give the verdicts 'proven', 'unproven, further evidence required', and also the ban length? How many positions are available btw?

#35 JoKuJaK

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:27 PM

Could you use normal quoting and reply below the quote?


We've been having issues with cheat reports since forever. What do you mean by it was working?


Why not? Is lying ok?

It was working because i wasnt encountering problems.

Later on fogging did become a new issue which was properly solved by admin ss's. I guess fogging still is the problem?

#36 tbiol

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 04:48 PM

Even Knit cannot prove a cheat report, he can only analyze it. And recommend it for being proven. It's this double checking that has made the cheat reports work in the past.
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I think we've all noticed that cheat reports are on a down turn. Not to say that cheating is on a down turn, just the reports. This stems from:

1. The best players have given up on caring if someone is cheating, because in most cases they don't have a problem still winning the game.
2. The fog hack being impossible to prove, which is why all cheaters have switched to it.
a. When is the last time an all unit hack was proven?
b. When was the last time a player who can get over 500 points used a full map reveal, and targetted an oil derrick with his first engineer?
3. Lack of activity, meaning many players don't want to ban more players, because of the already low amount that are currently playing.


These reasons have caused many players to not even worry about proving someone is cheating, or running the programs that assist in proving cheaters.

The auto ss uploader has brought fairness to players who opt to use it. Making it mandatory would be an ideal situation, however there are many problems that players have uploading it, and the fact that it still doesn't work with the CD version of the game, thus requiring further downloads.
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Hiring a new recruit to do this would be nice, but I still like the idea of ANY player coming in, looking at the cheat report (Analyzing it) and letting the admin know where and how someone has cheated, or in fact if there is insufficient evidence. This way the admin doesn't have to worry about a certain individual having to do the work by himself. Not to mention, if someone has to page someone, this is another step that wastes time. The accused player would need to respond to it, How long is too long? 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks?

The ladder has balanced itself, the best players are using the auto ss uploader, and are still at the top of the ladder. Cheat reports were originally set up to protect the top of the ladder, so one player would not be able to take away a 50 point game and ruin someone's attempt at a hall of fame. The desparity in top ranked players to the rest of the field have virtually eliminated the possibility of matching up against a rampant cheater. What I mean is this: If you look at the ladder as of right now. Tim, rank 1, is 200 points above the 10th ranked player. With the 250 point window of play in QM, he most likely will not match up against a cheater. This is ONLY BECAUSE OF THE AUTO SS UPLOADER, mind you. Otherwise, top players were using the fog hack, only to not give up the advantage to other top players who were using the fog hack. This is a fact. Another fact is that middle to low end players are using cheats, and many have been proven, and this was a way to curb the use of them. This is where the majority of players sit, and they are the one's who are actively providing cheat reports or just accusing players of cheating.

The only real reason I would like a new person, would be to have that person make ADMIN SCREEN SHOT REQUEST active. Having a person or two requesting admin screen shot requests or issuing them, would be a way to target HIGHLY SUSPECTED cheaters. These are the players that we are worried about, those who will not adapt the auto ss uploader without it being mandatory, and will probably give up when it does become mandatory.

The admin screen shot request truely needs to be an active part of this game. It also helps out this website by forcing players to come to this site and post, and while they are here they may look around. Thus promoting activity here on striketeam as well.

#37 Olaf

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:54 PM

There have been a few who put their hands up and admit, but what if the evidence isn't there to backup the ban? We just go on their word?

If they plead guilty? Yes, why not?

We will be back at square 1 with this, the majority of reports need to be analysed, there aren't active analysers to process, backlog begins

At least we'll have the other side of the story. The player knows he's being watched...

It was working because i wasnt encountering problems.

Ah, so it was working for *you*. That doesn't mean there's no problem.

Not to mention, if someone has to page someone, this is another step that wastes time. The accused player would need to respond to it, How long is too long? 2 days, 1 week, 2 weeks?

Paging someone is a lot faster then doing analysis. There is no too long, but the player might not be able to play anymore if he doesn't respond.

#38 ZiGZaG

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:04 PM

While i agree the auto ss shud be mandatory please give me like 2 months before you do this as my comp will explode in 12fps if i use it. lol

#39 JoKuJaK

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

If they plead guilty? Yes, why not?

At least we'll have the other side of the story. The player knows he's being watched...


Ah, so it was working for *you*. That doesn't mean there's no problem.


Paging someone is a lot faster then doing analysis. There is no too long, but the player might not be able to play anymore if he doesn't respond.

it was ''working'' for me yes.
in january 2005 steffen got dc 2 mins into the game and we lose like 50 pts and we end up at rank 3 LOL
or when u reported me for mapping and proved the report.. on hammer remember? i didnt map and xgs turned out to be buggy :p

its sad.. but a new month next month u see... just because theres problems doesnt mean they need to go away?

Edited by JoKuJaK, 08 February 2012 - 08:29 AM.


#40 Edd

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:28 PM


2. It wouldn't hurt to ask but like everyone is saying, I doubt anyone will openly plead guilty. I don't like the idea of them receiving a higher ban if they say they're not guilty either. I'd think that most players that get banned the 1st time will probably think twice before cheating again, so the faster they're back, the better.


Why not? Is lying ok?


I answered in the same post.

Lying is obviously not ok but it's also not "cheating" or "hacking" that deserves a doubled 'sentence'

#41 Jev

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:27 AM

Could you use normal quoting and reply below the quote?

can you direct me to a help page that tells me how todo that please


We've been having issues with cheat reports since forever. What do you mean by it was working?


Why not? Is lying ok?



#42 Edd

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:36 AM


just type underneath /quote]

#43 Jev

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:58 AM

just type underneath /quote]

So do I just delete parts that I dont want and then if I want to reply on a second quote do the same there?

#44 tbiol

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:07 PM

So do I just delete parts that I dont want and then if I want to reply on a second quote do the same there?


You have two options. and one that doens't work

1. If you can see, on the bottom right of everyones post is says "mulitquote""quote" in boxes. Click on that, and it give you a quote.
2. Look on the bottom right, of the post that you are making, and it should say "More Reply Options", you'll find a place for quotes there.
3. The bubble with the little line, that looks like a comic strip quote, that makes a general quote, but doesn;t seem to work right now.

#45 Edd

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:54 PM

So do I just delete parts that I dont want and then if I want to reply on a second quote do the same there?


Yes. Atleast that's what I do.,

If you want to quote more than one person, just click on 'multiquote' and you can continue reading until you're ready to post, then all the quotes u hit, will be ready on bottom right

#46 Jev

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:01 AM

2. Look on the bottom right, of the post that you are making, and it should say "More Reply Options", you'll find a place for quotes there.


Thanks very much, I'll give that a try.

#47 fir3w0rx

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:33 AM

This topic should be in the Cheat Reports section. The topic poster should get a warning.

#48 BornL33T

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:04 PM

Maybe if everyone is forced to use the Auto SS on QM or TourneyM it will be :
1-No need for new staff.
2-No need for any explanation
3-No need for this too.
4-Proceed to the ban.
Also no need for much time and knowledge with this method.
What do you say dear Olaf ?

Edited by DayDream, 10 February 2012 - 01:16 AM.


#49 JoKuJaK

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

I smell photoshop

#50 zMarsHz

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:51 AM

I smell photoshop


hard to photo shop the ss when it is taken from the game and uploaded to ladder instantly


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