46 replies to this topic

[A7Wins]

A couple of months ago i was very stubborn and never took an Apoc/Deso walk strategy to be practical. However, a couple of days ago i played NoNick and got destroyed by this strategy even though i had tons of money and defenses up.

Heres what happened. The game took place on Stormy Weather, i blew up the mid bridges with my Tanya, so he could only enter from the corners. I had tons of money so i made some towers and pills at one of the corners where NoNick attempted to invade. My army consisted of mass Mirages and Grizzlies. I had 4 Eagles and a few rockies (I still cant believe i lost having all this, but it was a GG) Anyways he massed desos via vats and sent them in with Apocs. By the time they reached my defenses i backed my army away because of desos, and the apocs demolished my defensives towers and pills. I sold some stuff nearby because i knew the apocs would continue the rampage. Anyways long story short, the strategy seemed to work too well leaving me absolutely helpless. My rockies couldnt kill desos because of the Apocs and same for my Eagles. I really could find no answer for killing mass amounts of desos. Not talking 6-7 here, i mean 20 plus in your base.

Anyways just here to ask what strategies are there to counter mass amounts of desos guarded by apocs? IMO they are one of the most imbalanced units in the game just because their radiation insults the technology of allied tanks. Plus once Vats are up, you can pump em out like connies at a cost of $300 which is nothing late game if both players have good eco's.

Also plz dont say "Dont let it get to that point" this was one of those games where that point being reached was inevitable. good long AvS game.

As always thanks for the tips, help, and advice.

[uncledrew]

With all the cash and time you had on stormy weather, couldn't you of got navy? Aircraft carriers?

[A7Wins]

With all the cash and time you had on stormy weather, couldn't you of got navy? Aircraft carriers?

Yup but didnt really do anything Vs. Deso/Apoc Walk.

[Seke]

.... still have to say don't let it get to that point...... BUT, if it is unavoidable:

always kill soviet battle labs if your allied, do NOT let them get a battle lab, you have air for a reason, sacrifice some rockies\planes to kill that damn lab, if they get apoc-deso ur screwed and if they get iron curtain or nuke, you will have a tough time too!

spy his warfactory. vet prisms are rape, and if you can get a leet prism then you can should be able to do a LARGE amount of damage.

i think mass prism towers\engi ifvs\walls\pills would have been good since u had a large amount of money and there was small entrances

its stormy weather??? get naval!!!!!!

can't do any of these? BASE TRADE WITH AN ENGI IFV!

[Drasten]

Im not sure if this would work, but you could try it.

I suppose he had like 20 desos and maybe 5 apocs? match his number of apocs with ifv+chrono legionare combo. They will out-range the apocs easily and make them useless. The sov player must then move his desos towards your ifv+chrono legionares and deploy in order to save his apocs, but with all/almost all of his apocs froozen you can just use some rockies and the planes you have to rape the desos.


He lost all his apocs/desos and you lost more or less nothing, its worth a shoot.

Edited by Drasten, 27 January 2012 - 11:21 PM.

[Seke]

Im not sure if this would work, but you could try it.

I suppose he had like 20 desos and maybe 5 apocs? match his number of apocs with ifv+chrono legionare combo. They will out-range the apocs easily and make them useless. The sov player must then move his desos towards your ifv+chrono legionares and deploy in order to save his apocs, but with all/almost all of his apocs froozen you can just use some rockies and the planes you have to rape the desos.


He lost all his apocs/desos and you lost more or less nothing, its worth a shoot.

impractical imo, but cool idea

[A7Wins]

hehe thanks for the tips guys, also forgot to add, one thing that made the whole ordeal even more difficult was the lag generated by big battles.

Drasten, i actually tried Legionaires lol, but not iFv,s no luck though because behind the Apoc/Deso walk was a group of rhinos.

Edited by A7Wins, 27 January 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[Drasten]

impractical imo, but cool idea

why would this be impractical? a chrono leg+ifv is about the same cost as the apoc when you got ore purifier. And they are really fast and mobile so if you need to you can just retreat safely. And if you target 1 apoc per chrono leg+ifv. Then he only has his desos left, thus allowing you to quickly take them out with rockies/planes. I think this would be extremly usefull vs deso+apoc rush if you actually practise on it and learn to use it effectivly. I havent done this myself but based on my knowledge from this game it should work fine.

[Seke]

why would this be impractical? a chrono leg+ifv is about the same cost as the apoc when you got ore purifier. And they are really fast and mobile so if you need to you can just retreat safely. And if you target 1 apoc per chrono leg+ifv. Then he only has his desos left, thus allowing you to quickly take them out with rockies/planes. I think this would be extremly usefull vs deso+apoc rush if you actually practise on it and learn to use it effectivly. I havent done this myself but based on my knowledge from this game it should work fine.

because the ifv-chrono would go POP.

[Drasten]

hehe thanks for the tips guys, also forgot to add, one thing that made the whole ordeal even more difficult was the lag generated by big battles.

Drasten, i actually tried Legionaires lol, but not iFv,s no luck though because behind the Apoc/Deso walk was a group of rhinos.

hehe thanks for the tips guys, also forgot to add, one thing that made the whole ordeal even more difficult was the lag generated by big battles.

Drasten, i actually tried Legionaires lol, but not iFv,s no luck though because behind the Apoc/Deso walk was a group of rhinos.

hmm, you should try this:

get about 5 prism tanks, like 10 mirages, 2-4 repair ifv, and alot of grizzlys and some fodder and some pillboxes if he attacks you and just be smart. Your prism tanks will be able to make heavy damage to his desos and some damage to his apocs. So if he deploys his desos in order to kill your prism tanks off then all his rhinos/apocs will take damage, and so will your prism tanks/some of your other stuff. Now retreat, let your ifv+eng heal you up. When using alot of prism tanks his apocs will slow down and he will be forced to move pretty slow. So once he gets close again repeat the process, and put down some pillboxes once he gets close to your base. Make sure to repair the radiation damage with your repair+ifv;s. his slow apocs/rhinos wont be able to do **** about your army, and aslong as you keep his desos under control your all set.

because the ifv-chrono would go POP.

Hmm? if your freeze all his apocs and send in your rockeeters really fast you should be able to kill some of them off before they can pop your ifv+chronos. And if the desos manage to do damage to the ifv+chrono legionares, retreat, then you should have a repair ifv ready and keep on freezing his apocs/killing his rockies. This should work with good micro?

Edited by Drasten, 27 January 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Seke]

hmm, you should try this:

get about 5 prism tanks, like 10 mirages, 2-4 repair ifv, and alot of grizzlys and some fodder and some pillboxes if he attacks you and just be smart. Your prism tanks will be able to make heavy damage to his desos and some damage to his apocs. So if he deploys his desos in order to kill your prism tanks off then all his rhinos/apocs will take damage, and so will your prism tanks/some of your other stuff. Now retreat, let your ifv+eng heal you up. When using alot of prism tanks his apocs will slow down and he will be forced to move pretty slow. So once he gets close again repeat the process, and put down some pillboxes once he gets close to your base. Make sure to repair the radiation damage with your repair+ifv;s. his slow apocs/rhinos wont be able to do **** about your army, and aslong as you keep his desos under control your all set.



Hmm? if your freeze all his apocs and send in your rockeeters really fast you should be able to kill some of them off before they can pop your ifv+chronos. And if the desos manage to do damage to the ifv+chrono legionares, retreat, then you should have a repair ifv ready and keep on freezing his apocs/killing his rockies. This should work with good micro?

i think this is all wrong, if he has 20 deso its not going to work the way you're saying.

[Drasten]

i think this is all wrong, if he has 20 deso its not going to work the way you're saying.

No plan is water-proof. What do you think is the best counter to massing desos combined with apocs+rhinos?

Also if you usually loose because of desos when using allied. Then you could try gb, sniper+ifv combo rapes fodder and desos really hard. But you will loose your jets/or paras.

[A7Wins]

Drasten what you are sayng sounds ideal, but believe me, when the game lags because of too many units, the rules of the game change.

And yea i have given GB a chance, but im not quite there yet, i still need my planes nd para to slow sovs d0wn.

Edited by A7Wins, 28 January 2012 - 12:32 AM.

[ZiGZaG]

i play as sovs and use this tactic, the most succsessful counter ive had done on me is attack the apocs n desos before they get to you with tanya ifv's and sacrifice harriers you send tanyas ifvs sovs r probly gna deploy u gotta make him deploy too much before he gets to your base 2-3 afcs full of harriers cost you and most planes will die but itll stop it

also chrono ifvs will fail miserably vs apoc deso rush bad idea,planes, tanya ifv's and prizims on high ground are best counter

unless ur gb but be stupid for a sov player to try this vs gb

[uncledrew]

i play as sovs and use this tactic, the most succsessful counter ive had done on me is attack the apocs n desos before they get to you with tanya ifv's and sacrifice harriers you send tanyas ifvs sovs r probly gna deploy u gotta make him deploy too much before he gets to your base 2-3 afcs full of harriers cost you and most planes will die but itll stop it

How many desolators (that are moving with cntrl-shift) can a tanya-ifv kill before it dies?

Tanya ifv (1600$) would have to kill atleast 3 desolators to make it cost-effective. This isn't taking in account that the desolators were probbably made via cloning vats at 300$ each. I would rather send the tanya-ifv around the map (if the map allows that option) and take out some of the opponent's buildings. That's probbably considered lame though..

[Seke]

Drasten what you are sayng sounds ideal, but believe me, when the game lags because of too many units, the rules of the game change.

And yea i have given GB a chance, but im not quite there yet, i still need my planes nd para to slow sovs d0wn.

I really like Gb, but really requires a good eco map (have to tech as gb to make it worth it)

How many desolators (that are moving with cntrl-shift) can a tanya-ifv kill before it dies?

Tanya ifv (1600$) would have to kill atleast 3 desolators to make it cost-effective. This isn't taking in account that the desolators were probbably made via cloning vats at 300$ each. I would rather send the tanya-ifv around the map (if the map allows that option) and take out some of the opponent's buildings. That's probbably considered lame though..

hey man if someone gets apoc-deso vs me then they should be expecting anything from me imo, engi, tanya, alt, etc.

[FReQuEnZy]

I really like Gb, but really requires a good eco map (have to tech as gb to make it worth it)

Not really. Go sov style allied.

[Seke]

Not really. Go sov style allied.

if u jus spam grizz as allied you might as well go soviet.

[ZiGZaG]

How many desolators (that are moving with cntrl-shift) can a tanya-ifv kill before it dies?

Tanya ifv (1600$) would have to kill atleast 3 desolators to make it cost-effective. This isn't taking in account that the desolators were probbably made via cloning vats at 300$ each. I would rather send the tanya-ifv around the map (if the map allows that option) and take out some of the opponent's buildings. That's probbably considered lame though..

the idea is to force the sov to deploy the desos tanya can ussually take 1 or 2 out but thats not the objective, if i have to deploy my desos while apocs r there 2-3 times due to 5-6 tanya ifvs then its way cost effective as apocs are becoming weaker and weaker, this works better on bigger maps along with harriers taking desos out counters it pretty well, this works on bigger maps anyway probly wudnt try it in smaller scenarios.

[ExpaNd]

Good micro with 4-5 prism tanks.+ tanya ifv for desos. also harriers > desos.

a good player who uses this tactic will rarely ever lose imo.

if your GB get 4-6 sniper ifvs

[AaSoVGoD]

On ra2 you can't really beat a top soviet on a map like country swing with America, its very difficult. Allies have always been the underdogs in ra2 and always will be. On asymmetrical maps allied has a higher chance of winning because of the cliffs, ramps, et cetera and the larger overall size giving allies a slight chance because sov's can't really rush you as easily. There's a lot more you can do with the tanya ifvs, harriers and all the units on larger maps. Allies have to use expensive fragile units to counter the deso apoc push so you best know what you're doing with micromanagment. or you can play soviet style (mass grizzly tanks) in the start but It all depends on the situation and who your playing against. As always make sure your buildorder is rock solid or you will run into a lot of trouble.

the idea is to force the sov to deploy the desos tanya can ussually take 1 or 2 out but thats not the objective, if i have to deploy my desos while apocs r there 2-3 times due to 5-6 tanya ifvs then its way cost effective as apocs are becoming weaker and weaker, this works better on bigger maps along with harriers taking desos out counters it pretty well, this works on bigger maps anyway probly wudnt try it in smaller scenarios.

makes sense

Edited by AaSoVGoD, 30 January 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[A7Wins]

Good micro with 4-5 prism tanks.+ tanya ifv for desos. also harriers > desos.

a good player who uses this tactic will rarely ever lose imo.

if your GB get 4-6 sniper ifvs

Heres the thing ,of course i would of thought about using Tanya iFv's and Prisms, but once again Apocs were in the mix, meaning the desos were guarded by apocs, Tanya iFv's have garbage range and i would most likely of have lost at least one iFv due to the lag and apocs facing them. I had 6 eagles, but that was a disaster using them, everytime i killed a $300 deso, i lost a $1200 plane due to the apoc guards. And the problem really was that, i had prisms and most avilable options, but the lag combined with the deso apoc walk rendered me helpless. If i went in to kill the desos with anything, the apocs moved up to kill, if i advanced my GrizzMirage group, the desos deployed lol. The enemy also had rhinos behind the ApocDeso team.

On ra2 you can't really beat a top soviet on a map like country swing with America, its very difficult. Allies have always been the underdogs in ra2 and always will be. On asymmetrical maps allied has a higher chance of winning because of the cliffs, ramps, et cetera and the larger overall size giving allies a slight chance because sov's can't really rush you as easily. There's a lot more you can do with the tanya ifvs, harriers and all the units on larger maps. Allies have to use expensive fragile units to counter the deso apoc push so you best know what you're doing with micromanagment. or you can play soviet style (mass grizzly tanks) in the start but It all depends on the situation and who your playing against. As always make sure your buildorder is rock solid or you will run into a lot of trouble.

True, but i hate going Sov style allied, so pointless, as Seke said might as well go sovs at that point. You make one mistake in TC and your Paper Armored Grizz tanks just get fed to the Rhinos. I like to overcome Rhinos by exploiting Allied T3ch.

[volkots]

to A7wins
Just say when u are online and we can play again and again that map, me being iraq and u being korea.

[Seke]

Heres the thing ,of course i would of thought about using Tanya iFv's and Prisms, but once again Apocs were in the mix, meaning the desos were guarded by apocs, Tanya iFv's have garbage range and i would most likely of have lost at least one iFv due to the lag and apocs facing them. I had 6 eagles, but that was a disaster using them, everytime i killed a $300 deso, i lost a $1200 plane due to the apoc guards. And the problem really was that, i had prisms and most avilable options, but the lag combined with the deso apoc walk rendered me helpless. If i went in to kill the desos with anything, the apocs moved up to kill, if i advanced my GrizzMirage group, the desos deployed lol. The enemy also had rhinos behind the ApocDeso team.



True, but i hate going Sov style allied, so pointless, as Seke said might as well go sovs at that point. You make one mistake in TC and your Paper Armored Grizz tanks just get fed to the Rhinos. I like to overcome Rhinos by exploiting Allied T3ch.

hey, if ur ever in a situation you think you will lose: when you get the opportunity, BASE TRADE.

Good micro with 4-5 prism tanks.+ tanya ifv for desos. also harriers > desos.

a good player who uses this tactic will rarely ever lose imo.

if your GB get 4-6 sniper ifvs

"a good player who uses this tactic will rarely ever lose imo"

i think that is an overstatement.

[A7Wins]

@Explicit Kk, your nick?

@Seke - Good idea, i try to do that when sovs, but as allied all he has to do is spam desos and cannons and the hopes of a successfull base trade fade away.