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The Best Answer Yet for Alting


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#26 tbiol

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:04 PM

i was OBVIOUSLY joking in the quote

yes, I know. but it makes a point.

#27 nooomercy

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:18 PM

Now If I follow this line of logic, and apply it to self spying. Don't allow your opponent to tech up. Yet self spying is considered an abuse, and has consequences. This brings me back to square one. I'm trying to address this issue, and hear thoughts about the issue.


It's not logic because self spying is an illegal glitch. As many of the server admins such as Riz have stated: Alting is an intended feature of the game. You keep saying MOST people agree with you but what I've seen from the other posts on this threads. MOST people agree that it is legal but you shouldn't do it because it is lame. Just like some players refuse to engi or engi eat because they don't play the way. Others use all tools in their arsenal to get a win.

And no there isn't an imbalance. You can alt a chrono miner on their war and chrono it back to your base right before it dies. Is that fair? Your argument is silly at best.

It can't be illegal because it happens without you doing anything in some cases because it is AN INTENDED FEATURE. It may be a stupid feature (to you), you can patch it out, but you can't make it illegal.

#28 tbiol

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:49 PM

It's not logic because self spying is an illegal glitch. As many of the server admins such as Riz have stated: Alting is an intended feature of the game. You keep saying MOST people agree with you but what I've seen from the other posts on this threads. MOST people agree that it is legal but you shouldn't do it because it is lame. Just like some players refuse to engi or engi eat because they don't play the way. Others use all tools in their arsenal to get a win.

And no there isn't an imbalance. You can alt a chrono miner on their war and chrono it back to your base right before it dies. Is that fair? Your argument is silly at best.

It can't be illegal because it happens without you doing anything in some cases because it is AN INTENDED FEATURE. It may be a stupid feature (to you), you can patch it out, but you can't make it illegal.


Self spying could also be said that it's part of the game...and again using your logic patch it out. however, it is felt by ALL to be cheating. This was addressed at sometime and decided so. If this is a bad example then use the deployed desolator at a blown bridge, it again is part of the game, yet has been decided to be an abuse of a glitch.

Altings intended feature is to run over troops. Not to run up a ramp (block traffic and take friendly fire). I've stated that the difficulty to prove comes from the accidental/unintentional, not the absolutely intentional.
Thus the difficulty to prove the intentional (in first post)

As far as the MOST people agree with me.

I think if you go back to the original post I will have noted that more have seemed to agree with me, than with you.

There is no MOST in that sentence, and that was only said once....not over and over like you are implying.



And no there isn't an imbalance. You can alt a chrono miner on their war and chrono it back to your base right before it dies. Is that fair?

Ummmmmm.... I'm speechless. I'm saying there is an imbalance....you say "NO" then you use an example saying that this is imbalanced. (edit: sorry, was the double negative intentional so you are agreeing with me?)

Your argument is silly at best.

It's really great that this comes right after what you just said, I couldn't have asked for better placement

It may be a stupid feature (to you), you can patch it out, but you can't make it illegal.

The first part....that's why I gave examples in the beginning, it's not only me.
second part....Don't have the skill to patch it out
third part......Me personally, correct, but as an open discussion: WE as a group can.

Edited by tbiol, 17 February 2011 - 11:51 PM.


#29 nooomercy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 12:18 AM

You ignored the part where the admins said it's an intended feature and therefor not a glitch. self spying / deso bridge are un-intended bugs and therefor illegal glitches.

If there isn't a counter for a strategy it is an imbalance. There are several counters some of which I outlined above, so it is not imbalanced. Just because something is DIFFICULT to properly counter does not make it illegal. It's a simple case of L2play....

#30 tbiol

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 12:41 AM

You ignored the part where the admins said it's an intended feature and therefor not a glitch. self spying / deso bridge are un-intended bugs and therefor illegal glitches.

If there isn't a counter for a strategy it is an imbalance. There are several counters some of which I outlined above, so it is not imbalanced. Just because something is DIFFICULT to properly counter does not make it illegal. It's a simple case of L2play....


Please reference the admins saying it is an intended feature (with a link). This will help answer my 4th question from original post.

I think I missed addressing it may be a better way of saying it. Using the term ignored would be better suited for you.

Altings intended feature is to run over troops.

But, I didn't. I just didn't cover your admins quotation.


Wow, there's that unmistakable ego again (you sure it's not L3 or L4), but I digress.

But the rest of that statement is actually pretty good. Congrats. You have successfully made an opinion. And provided YOUR answer for the first question I proposed. Cheers. You Anser: it is not cheating. Thank you.


Maybe I should make a poll.



Question 1. If it is cheating, how do you prove it?
This is what I think stops the admin from properly calling alting a bug abuse. A Screen Shot CANNOT be teh only proof. Video would be the only way to completely prove. Because if you drive past and stop there is a possiblity of tanks being on the opening. therefore a video of that player backing away from the opening would show a compliance that they are not TRYING to ALT, or conversely show the obvious intention of alting the structure.

Question 2. What would be the punishment?
I think this would have to be discussed at nauseum as well. My recommendation would be a 2 warns then a ban. 3 strikes. With a 3 month wipe. This would stop habitual alters, and may keep track of accidental.

Question 3. If everyone can do it, why should it be considered a bug abuse?
Unfortunately, there is an imbalance. I reference tanks, because this is the most common way of alting, because if someone does it with a miner they won't hear the end of it, and may have trouble getting games. If a soviet uses three rhinos, their armor is thicker than a grizzly tank therefore taking more friendly fire hits.

Question 4. Why is there a lack of input from the admin on the subject?
That's all I got, i've looked, and it seems like most current admin have weighed in on the topics prior to being made admin.

#31 Seke

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:56 AM

It's 100% not cheating, its just laming.

#32 unanswered

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 03:17 AM

I'm done with this thread, the topic maker is a moron, that is all.

#33 rumblesom

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 03:29 AM

alting is really not that bad.. some times its really awful.. but for the most part you can stop alting by meeting an attack before it reaches your base. Also, in some instances alting is not the most effective way to kill a warf/ref. tanks pause before moving when told to alt and this delay can be the difference in a successful attack. tanks alting the side of a warf do no extra damage and take longer to get into position, so alting is really only effective when attacking the warf/ref head-on. mostly, i find manually driving just into range and then pressing attack is the quickest way to destroy a building, otherwise the delay factor can cost too much time.

#34 tbiol

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 04:32 AM

I'm done with this thread, the topic maker is a moron, that is all.


You have provided all of us with so much insight already, i'm sure your presence will be missed.

Let's take a trip down memory lane.....
Your first post you are already trying to flame.
your second post: my favorite, is the quote with no thoughts of your own.
your third: is off topic, aside from saying that alting is a practice you use.
4th and 5th off topic
6th: my second favorite, you waiving your huge man parts around "i'm top 10 in both"
7th: again no insight
8th: apparently you final post, and you leave with some flaming.

And you almost left with some class.

#35 tbiol

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 04:48 AM

alting is really not that bad.. some times its really awful.. but for the most part you can stop alting by meeting an attack before it reaches your base. Also, in some instances alting is not the most effective way to kill a warf/ref. tanks pause before moving when told to alt and this delay can be the difference in a successful attack. tanks alting the side of a warf do no extra damage and take longer to get into position, so alting is really only effective when attacking the warf/ref head-on. mostly, i find manually driving just into range and then pressing attack is the quickest way to destroy a building, otherwise the delay factor can cost too much time.


"alting is really not that bad.. some times its really awful.."
Since I'm sure you'll be stopping back by to read.....this is what I mean. Sometimes, it doesn't matter, sometimes it sucks.


Back to unanswered...you think I'm a moron, or I don't fully understand what others saying. I'm fully comprehending every part. You on the other hand are not conveying an independent thought of your own. It's a DISCUSSION. You can feel different than I do about the topic, to cop out and call me a moron really only reflects badly on yourself. Perhaps it's a good thing that you are top 10 in both games, cause you certainly don't communicate very well.


I can understand both sides of the argument, it doesn't mean I have to agree with you, or vice versa. I don't have to resort to name calling, but it seems like that's exactly what you need to do to feel better about yourself. Or perhaps I like to hide my criticisms of you inside text. Therefore you have to be smart enough to understand it (<--------that's an example for you, it's implying that you are not very smart)

It's 100% not cheating, its just laming.


Why do you think this way?

alting is really not that bad.. some times its really awful.. but for the most part you can stop alting by meeting an attack before it reaches your base. Also, in some instances alting is not the most effective way to kill a warf/ref. tanks pause before moving when told to alt and this delay can be the difference in a successful attack. tanks alting the side of a warf do no extra damage and take longer to get into position, so alting is really only effective when attacking the warf/ref head-on. mostly, i find manually driving just into range and then pressing attack is the quickest way to destroy a building, otherwise the delay factor can cost too much time.


I feel that way pointing is a more effective way when in base, because you aren't wasting the end shots on a building that's blowing up. But this is already after a mass of tanks has gotten into the base.

I'm more concerned with this scenerio: If you lost a tank battle, but your opponent only has two tanks left, and he decides to alt them into your war factory, yes you can sell, yes you can engi to fix, you can do all of these things that people suggest, but if you have one tank and two pill boxes selling may be your only option because of what he's done. and in some cases that means game over.......got cut off'

#36 nooomercy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:28 AM

if you lost the tank battle generally you have already lost the game unless the map is huge and they are a terrible player. They can A) regroup with more tanks B) hit and run key structures C) destroy miners. D) park in front of WF and rape whatever comes out while they send tanks they just built as reinforcements.

Barring some miracle, you are cooked. Alting just speeds up the process.

As almost everyone HERE has said, it's lame but it's not cheating. Your best bet is to drop it or continue to get flamed. :\

#37 Curatio

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 08:46 AM

so you are saying that you are okay with someone taking their 1st miner from their refinery and alting your war factory? Because next time you'll do the same thing.

This is very good logic, I wish the world was run this way. i believe the word your looking for is retaliation.

Apparently you and the other two don't seem to grasp the idea of trying to table a discussion using logic. Please edit your posts to stay on topic. and have your dicscussions elsewhere.


Dude your making a massive topic for such a small thing. I NEVER Lame, BUT I don't care if people engi me, alt me, maphack. I don't care, it adds a challenge.

the answer you are looking for is rediculous really. People are using it, and no one is getting banned. Therefore xwis does not call it abusing glitch. People with a little more respect then most don't alt, because they veiw it as being in the same catagory as Engi etc. Is it Bug? No more then Auto-Mag, IFV with engi on Guard, Tesla Tanks attack while moving, squashing Units.

Is Alting bug abuse? NO
Is it Lame? YES


Thats the answer, nothing else will change that.

If they come at WF with 1 miner, why don't you just forget about his miner? Less income for him and you can repair it faster then it can kill. If he constantly alts just kill it slowly with an engi ready to repair. 1 engi = 500, 1 miner = 1400 + he has less miners for income. Alting in the end is a FAILURE. I rarely come across a game where alting has impacted the game. Drone can kill miner without inflicting damage to warfac.


HERES A PERFECT ANSWER! : When you send a tank to alt a dog what does it do? It follows it until it is on top of it? Right? What happens when you alt a tank onto War fac? It moves on top of it. Clear now?

Edited by Curatio, 18 February 2011 - 08:53 AM.


#38 Insurgen

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:41 AM

Alting is a very bad practice to use

Alting usually happens when you have 4-5 tanks each and a fair tank fight doesnt seem "fair" so they alt and destroy war factory and when you attack there tanks your doing damage aswell to the war.. its unfair because your technically killing you own war factory trying to save it

And if attacking your war factory isnt cheating/laming then Self Spy shouldnt be seen as cheating but "Laming"

Its just a joke, but how would you patch it ;P

Edited by Insurgen, 18 February 2011 - 12:00 PM.


#39 MayHem

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:40 PM

i was OBVIOUSLY joking in the quote

Hi frank

Edited by MayHem, 18 February 2011 - 02:44 PM.


#40 tbiol

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:46 PM

Its just a joke, but how would you patch it ;P

Don't have a clue

Dude your making a massive topic for such a small thing. I NEVER Lame, BUT I don't care if people engi me, alt me, maphack. I don't care, it adds a challenge

Actually, I made one post and dilligently followed up on responses. Responses, to which, added more questions if I don't feel as though you've answered properly.

Ah the rest, "I NEVER LAME." "If they lame you, lame back harder" Which is it? If you live by this higher standard, stick with it, don't change it to where it works for you. Or don't say I NEVER lame. But it's this part that kills the rest of your sentence. You are saying that you don't care, because it adds more of a challenge, yet you do. You can't have both sides of the argument, so pick one.


the answer you are looking for is rediculous really. People are using it, and no one is getting banned. Therefore xwis does not call it abusing glitch.

The answer I'm looking for is debate. Having people think is never ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the rationale behind your next sentence doesn't make sense, but it could just be the use of therefore. People are using it/the are not getting banned/ BECAUSE xwis does not call it a glitch. Henceforth, this discussion.

Is Alting bug abuse? NO
Is it Lame? YES


We could call that your vote. Thank you.

When you send a tank to alt a dog what does it do? It follows it until it is on top of it? Right? What happens when you alt a tank onto War fac? It moves on top of it. Clear now?

This is the definition of alting.

if you lost the tank battle generally you have already lost the game unless the map is huge OR they are a terrible player. They can A) regroup with more tanks B) hit and run key structures C) destroy miners. D) park in front of WF and rape whatever comes out while they send tanks they just built as reinforcements.

Or, is the only change I'd make

Barring some miracle, you are cooked. Alting just speeds up the process.

This goes back to the first response. With a massive outnumber, yes game is done. It's finding that arbitrary number of tanks that makes it painful, the one that causes people to get mad about alting.

As almost everyone HERE has said, it's lame but it's not cheating.

It's a discussion. I'm mature enough to have people disagree with me.

"only truly 'abuse' if you continously click alt on a factory to prevent tanks/vehicles from coming out" Abuse is in quotes so you are not really calling it an abuse? Just checking.

Your best bet is to drop it or continue to get flamed. :\

I've been told to: stop crying, and called a moron by unanswered
the next closest thing would you saying to not whine, but it wasn't really a shot.
In other words, I think I can handle some misguided anger.

It doesn't need to be dropped, it's a discussion. Alting, in my opinion, is the one thing that could be considered cheating that is not called cheating. There is a polarizing nature to it. It's been said on more than one occasion HERE: I DON'T DO IT, UNLESS...

I know all sides of the argument. Some don't even think it's bad; some choose to only use it in retaliation; some go out of their way to show that they are not doing it; some don't do it at all. A few do it to everyone unless something is said.

Another way to phrase the whole topic would be if alting isn't really that bad, why isn't everyone using it? But more than likely that topic would get locked up, because it would promote something that the community looks down on.

#41 nooomercy

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:53 PM

Simply alting is on a different level from ramp blocking. If you hit the key once, the opponents tanks can still come out of war and your tank will move off. CONTINOUSLY clicking it prevents a built tank from coming out of the war and/or doing anything (firing, moving). It's also not cheating but it's a lot more dirty then just alting.

#42 tbiol

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:34 PM

Simply alting is on a different level from ramp blocking. If you hit the key once, the opponents tanks can still come out of war and your tank will move off. CONTINOUSLY clicking it prevents a built tank from coming out of the war and/or doing anything (firing, moving). It's also not cheating but it's a lot more dirty then just alting.

Well put.

So there are two forms of alting.

Running up on the ramp do draw fire = lame
Prevention of units coming out = ?

Now the more common of the two is obviously the first. The second draws massive retaliation in future games; and usually some sort of post about the individual on this board. Does this correct the issue?

#43 Drasten

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 10:59 PM

As i have already asked, but yet to recieve an answear. How do you alt, and what does it do?

#44 Seke

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:15 PM

Alting moves the unit onto a cell. Such as this, selecting a rhino tank and holding down the alt key and then clicking a gi or some other form of "crushable infantry". This causes the rhino tank to go on top of that unit and crush it. Also, "alt" can be used to put a tank onto another building. Only buildings that have a "ramp" to them, such as the ore refinery and war factory. So, if you successfully "alt" that building with a rhino, your rhino will be "on" the building's ramp attacking that building. Any hits that go towards your rhino while it is on your enemy's building will result in not only hurting your tank, but also your opponent's own building.

#45 Curatio

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:00 AM

[quote name='tbiol' timestamp='1298040419' post='1443799']
Ah the rest, "I NEVER LAME." "If they lame you, lame back harder" Which is it? If you live by this higher standard, stick with it, don't change it to where it works for you. Or don't say I NEVER lame. But it's this part that kills the rest of your sentence. You are saying that you don't care, because it adds more of a challenge, yet you do. You can't have both sides of the argument, so pick one.

That doesn't mean I lame back if they lame, its a general statement.

As for the rest, your not worth making a petty arguement out of. I don't care how you veiw alting TBH.

#46 tbiol

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:18 AM

As i have already asked, but yet to recieve an answear. How do you alt, and what does it do?


Maybe you should read more closely, I've addressed your question. I'll answer again, Look it up elsewhere, do a search....

#47 tbiol

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:29 AM

That doesn't mean I lame back if they lame, its a general statement.

As for the rest, your not worth making a petty arguement out of. I don't care how you veiw alting TBH.


Do you see how your general statement could be considered misleading?


I'll say it again, it's a discussion, that's what we're doing here. I've said how I view it, I'm looking for you view, and how it relates to mine, and you've posted that.

Unfortunately you already have that worthless piece of information, because you've read it...no you'll have to do more to forget it.

#48 Knit

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:29 AM

Question 1. If it is cheating, how do you prove it?
This is what I think stops the admin from properly calling alting a bug abuse. A Screen Shot CANNOT be teh only proof. Video would be the only way to completely prove. Because if you drive past and stop there is a possiblity of tanks being on the opening. therefore a video of that player backing away from the opening would show a compliance that they are not TRYING to ALT, or conversely show the obvious intention of alting the structure.

A maphacker who only plays games with crates is also incredibly difficult, nigh on impossible, to prove*. This does not stop us from declaring that maphacking is cheating. What really stops "alting" from being recognised as bug abuse is the fact that it isn't even a bug.

Consider all of the other known bugs that can be abused. What differentiates "alting" from those is that had any further official patches been developed, we can safely assume these bugs would eventually have been removed.

*Please avoid finding yourselves in this scenario! - either make sure you fully trust your opponent or, at the very least, run XGS to be safe :)

#49 tbiol

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:34 AM

A maphacker who only plays games with crates is also incredibly difficult, nigh on impossible, to prove*. This does not stop us from declaring that maphacking is cheating. What really stops "alting" from being recognised as bug abuse is the fact that it isn't even a bug.

Consider all of the other known bugs that can be abused. What differentiates "alting" from those is that had any further official patches been developed, we can safely assume these bugs would eventually have been removed.

*Please avoid finding yourselves in this scenario! - either make sure you fully trust your opponent or, at the very least, run XGS to be safe :)

Well there you go. I stand corrected.

I think I should give you a nice man hug. Well typed, good explanations, and straight to the point (well maybe not that last part)

On to my next adventure

Edited by tbiol, 19 February 2011 - 01:35 AM.


#50 Deadmatch

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:33 AM

The only working option is a new patch / update, that makes it imposible for other units to stand on the building.

Off-topic: I rather play someone with FOGhack + ifv engi then an ALTER.


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