290 replies to this topic

[WhiteTib]

LOL.


If I made a list, it would be the bottom 10, and I'd be on it somewhere, heh.

[GuestAccount]

Oh i know, thats why I see no real value in your opinion on top players.

After all, you have to be able to compete at the highest levels to really understand the top players strengths and weaknesses.

[Orochi]

seriously if players like ziege, sung, xtcforyou, alterego, mola, fakemammy, diego, vin & l0ve, teamxle, even ray and seb are on the list based on skill then players like avan and myself should qualify as the top 30 ever.... most of this is ludicrous

[dan3157]

Ranking are based on achievement, not association.

The clan argument is ridiculous, and you wont find a rankings system in the entire world that can support your case.

You are free to make your own clan top 10 lists, but these rankings are about each individual players skill levels, what is so hard to understand about that?

You're not understanding the importance that the clan competition played in the TS community.

The actual top-tier players like dachs, stefor, atombombu, etc. helped their clans win the clan ladder multiple times by beating the other top clans. Unlike winning only one tournament ladder (very easy to newbie bash), they were the best because they beat the best. The winner of the clan ladder would sometimes be determined on the last day of the month when the number 1 ranked clan played versus the number 2 ranked clan.

How many top 5 ranked players did you play on August 31, 2008?

[WhiteTib]

Oh i know, thats why I see no real value in your opinion on top players.

After all, you have to be able to compete at the highest levels to really understand the top players strengths and weaknesses.

No it's not.

You see no real value in my opnion on top players because, everyones opinions vary, and also because my opinion on the top players is the opinion where I feel the top players were the ones who would players of ANY rank, and help their side (left v right) or their clan be the very best.

This game is not about how you can do as a single player... it's about how you are as a person who knows it's a game, and enjoys it for that.





The TOP players in my opinion, are the ones who would have a laugh, enjoy the game, help you, and people you could learn from.

Edited by WhiteTib, 22 April 2010 - 05:42 PM.

[GuestAccount]

You're not understanding the importance that the clan competition played in the TS community.

The actual top-tier players like dachs, stefor, atombombu, etc. helped their clans win the clan ladder multiple times by beating the other top clans. Unlike winning only one tournament ladder (very easy to newbie bash), they were the best because they beat the best. The winner of the clan ladder would sometimes be determined on the last day of the month when the number 1 ranked clan played versus the number 2 ranked clan.

How many top 5 ranked players did you play on August 31, 2008?

If its so easy to win the ladder with a 138 win streak using nod (the consensus weaker faction), why am i the only person in history to manage to pull it off?

And in the month i did it, silverfox, kapa, TRZ and alter3go were competing fiercely with me for the top spot, kapa and alter3go even colluded and did freewins to knock me off, and both caught bans for it, check The Bils recent posts for confirmation of this

Again, its not my fault i developed the system so late in the games history, but to try and pretend i faced no top level competition is simply asinine, if you do your homework, you will find public challenges from me to kapa on GWZ, but he out right refused to play against my nod.

Again, if you were active as this time, you would know all of these facts,
but you are living in this delusional world in thinking that TS's only relevant era's were when you were active.

The reality is very few top 10 players wanted to play against me, and instead would namehide on unranked nicks, in an attempt to snipe my points, and no risk theirs on their highly ranked nicks.

This game is not about how you can do as a single player... it's about how you are as a person who knows it's a game, and enjoys it for that.

The TOP players in my opinion, are the ones who would have a laugh, enjoy the game, help you, and people you could learn from.

That validates me placing no value on your opinion on this subject, but feel free to make a "top 30 most popular players" list,
but thats not what are trying to achieve here, this is about hardcore skill as an individual, with nobody holding your hand.

Personality doesnt even come into it.

seriously if players like ziege, sung, xtcforyou, alterego, mola, fakemammy, diego, vin & l0ve, teamxle, even ray and seb are on the list based on skill then players like avan and myself should qualify as the top 30 ever.... most of this is ludicrous

Im sorry that you didnt quite make the cut, but if its any conciliation, your detailed analysis can be viewed here

Edited by SkeletonNod, 22 April 2010 - 06:01 PM.

[phatmouse]

The clan argument is ridiculous, and you wont find a rankings system in the entire world that can support your case.

Hmm, no ranking system in the world would support that? well what about um lets say a basketball team? a football team, or doubles in tennis?

do you honestly think Serena williams would be as good 2v2 without her sister venus backing her up?

individual merit on this TS is irrelevant since the die hard competitors focused their challenges in 2vs2 games.
1vs1 weren't just that popular amongst the top players when 2v2 games on terrace were in mass abundance.
I know this, Dan knows this, any old schooler knows this and anyone who can imagine TS once being plentiful understands this.

Thanks WT, I did notice some comments about the micro and macro tag, so i thought id just try to clear it up real fast

*imo*
3. Dachschaf - Incredible macro <-- ???? Dach had a sick understanding of how to dominate your enemy with buildings and mass units. the idea here was that u dont necesarly have to be skilled in controlling every individual titan if you have 30-40 of them marching across the screen.

7. KillerKg - Incredible micro <-- huh ? A lot of people say KG had the best MK control and that his micro was just wicked, which i would agree from my faintest memories of playing him. He definitely put in a lot of effort into harassing with his MK

Edited by phatmouse, 22 April 2010 - 06:31 PM.

[Orochi]

its not that i didnt make the cut, its that your list is off by a lot. you didnt even include players like tezzism and lookalike who were pretty ****ing good in their primes. this list isnt more than famous names and decent players picked out of a hat

[dan3157]

If its so easy to win the ladder with a 138 win streak using nod (the consensus weaker faction), why am i the only person in history to manage to pull it off?

You greatly improve the probability when:

• You host all your games (perhaps to get an advantageous spot?)
• You hosted with lame options (there's no way I would play with harvester truce on)
• You can boot whoever wants to challenge you
• You're playing a 9-year old game thus the probability of a top-tier player dropping by is greatly reduced (heck, just boot him if it does happen right?)
• You have cheats installed on your computer
• You use Nod on a very large map
• You don't take chances changing maps, changing options or joining another person's game

There's probably a few additional items I could list, but I don't know the full picture.
My initial post on your win streak (looks like you need to logged in to Gamer Warzone)
My later post after reading frzflame's accusation of your options (looks like you need to logged in to Gamer Warzone)

Edited by dan3157, 22 April 2010 - 06:41 PM.

[GuestAccount]

Hmm, no ranking system in the world would support that? well what about um lets say a basketball team? or doubles in tennis?

do you honestly think Serena williams would be as good 2v2 without her sister venus backing her up?

basket ball?
Michael Jordan is the consensus best ever, is that because he played for the bulls? Or is it because he produced sheer magic on the court?

tennis?
im not quite sure what point you are trying to make with serena and venus,
but in terms of rankings, serena is the current female singles world #1,
thats based on her winning multiple singles grand slams last year,
her doubles accomplishments have nothing to do with her singles rankings,

this is a singles rankings thread, if you want to do a "best 2v2 teams" go ahead man, but that's not what this thread is about

its not that i didnt make the cut, its that your list is off by a lot. you didnt even include players like tezzism and lookalike who were pretty ****ing good in their primes. this list isnt more than famous names and decent players picked out of a hat

Tezzism was "okay", not quite top 30 material IMO,
lo0kalike was very good though, he probably could have made the cut, i have a career card for him you can find it by following the link in my sig if you want analysis on him.

Edited by SkeletonNod, 22 April 2010 - 06:38 PM.

[Orochi]

kalle was better than looka. i also forgot spacenets/skymatze/pistens4u/imspace who was better than almost everyone when he quit in i think 05 or 06. im pretty sure imspace was spacenets. regardless if they werent the same person both would murder almost half of the players on that list

[GuestAccount]

You greatly improve the probability when:

• You host all your games (perhaps to get an advantageous spot?)
• You hosted with lame options (there's no way I would play with harvester truce on)
• You can boot whoever wants to challenge you
• You're playing a 9-year old game thus the probability of a top-tier player dropping by is greatly reduced (heck, just boot him if it does happen right?)
• You have cheats installed on your computer
• You use Nod on a very large map
• You don't take chances changing maps, changing options or joining another person's game

There's probably a few additional items I could list, but I don't know the full picture.
My initial post on your win streak
My later post after reading frzflame's accusation of your options

1) I hosted the majority of my games for convenience, i have a double screended PC so could suft the net whilst waiting for a victim, i mean opponent.
2) Most of my games were played without harv truce, and even with it on, it was rarely even a factor, in anycase refusing to use it only shows how stagnant your interpretation of the game is.
3) I made a point of booting unknown, unranked nicks, because of being prolifically cheated, well documented on this very site, if you care to search, people would just openly pig me past 3 mins to snipe my points, its all documented here on this site.
4) if anyone ranked with a clean record (no multiple recons on stats), id play them, i was totally confident in my ability and system at that point, also public challenges on GWZ, search them.
5) i have a fiend trainer, which i have used prolifically throughout my TS career and a method for anti cheating, i have never made any attempt to hide it either,
thats why all the cheat reports about me are for fiending.
6), id say it was around a 60/40 split between FF and terrace, again theres screens of me beating TRZ on terrace with nod from TL on GWZ, search them
7) i think we have covered this already, but the month started out for me an an experiment,
i had thought of a way to exploit the stagnent playing strategys that the TS community has fallen into, so i came up with a system that i thought could do it, and the results produced speak for themselves,

What people say on GWZ is irrelevant, they like to use me as a talking point, a person to gang up against, it gives them a common bond, i dont mind it, i find what they say about me quite comical, but often they deliberately twist facts and lie to discredit me and my accomplishments.
Take everything they say about me with a 5 pinches of salt.

kalle was better than looka. i also forgot spacenets/skymatze/pistens4u/imspace who was better than almost everyone when he quit in i think 05 or 06. im pretty sure imspace was spacenets. regardless if they werent the same person both would murder almost half of the players on that list

Kalle was not better than lo0ka, a prime lo0ka was one of the few guys to put Ls ona prime schaf.
Also, spacenets was i am space, and while he had exceptional unit control, and rushing, he lacked power in the econ dept, you could simply outgrow him to a point where his strengths became meaningless, thats why he didnt make the cut, but he was considered.

Edited by SkeletonNod, 22 April 2010 - 07:01 PM.

[phatmouse]

basket ball?

Yeah sure, amongst general consensus but the game is not 1vs1 jam, its called basketball and the bulls wouldn't have won major titles in a row had it not been for the chemistry within the team. Same applies for the clan argument with -moon- being the last dominant clan on TS and their star player dachschaf contributing vastly to that cost. but like I said earlier, schaf could not have been great without ziege, they just clicked together.

How can this be a singles ranking thread when:
1. Most of those guys were well known 2vs2rs.
2. You never competed with any of them 1vs1.
3. You aren't experienced enough to judge 1vs1 abilities.

So what is this topic about?
stating factual information or self promoting "skeleton nod"

Lol Dan, i looked at those links, i can't believe Skeleton nod has been ranting about the same thing since August 08 lmao.

[Orochi]

imspace was an econ player not a rusher.... i think i remember him similiar to suworrow mass refs/tits without the powerplaying. suworrow also isnt on the list.... and kalle was more skilled than looka going into long game, kalle also had a good nod.

[phatmouse]

"What people say on GWZ is irrelevant, they like to use me as a talking point, a person to gang up against, it gives them a common bond, i dont mind it, i find what they say about me quite comical, but often they deliberately twist facts and lie to discredit me and my accomplishments."

How is that irrelevant since this is a Tiberian Sun forum and the members posting here all came from GWZ?

Just because this is a new site doesn't give you the right to make up things Skeleton Nod.

top 10 nod players of all time *IMO*

1. XtrmForce (good 1v1 and 2v2)
2. Gabsnip3 ( best 2v2 nod, gab rarely 1v1d or played without mot)
3. stefor (him and XF had an intense rivalry)
4. maxpovver (developed a nod that could stand a chance vs a power play GDI like schaf on terrace)
5. brtherhod
6. sex4king
7. ace1gold
8. insyder16
9. mola/r0ster
10. stonehigh

[Orochi]

stonehigh...... ray are you a crackhead?

[GuestAccount]

basket ball?

Yeah sure, amongst general consensus but the game is not 1vs1 jam, its called basketball and the bulls wouldn't have won major titles in a row had it not been for the chemistry within the team. Same applies for the clan argument with -moon- being the last dominant clan on TS and their star player dachschaf contributing vastly to that cost. but like I said earlier, schaf could not have been great without ziege, they just clicked together.

How can this be a singles ranking thread when:
1. Most of those guys were well known 2vs2rs.
2. You never competed with any of them 1vs1.
3. You aren't experienced enough to judge 1vs1 abilities.

So what is this topic about?
stating factual information or self promoting "skeleton nod"

Lol Dan, i looked at those links, i can't believe Skeleton nod has been ranting about the same thing since August 08 lmao.

But Michael Jordans #1 ranking is not based on what the bulls accomplished, its based on what he accomplished, when you understand that you will understand why your whole clan argument is defunct.
If you want an accurate team or clan rankings, then it needs to go in another thread.
"never competed with any of them 1v1, and not experienced enough, god this is the kind of nonsense i have to reply to now on here?
This is the kind of nonsense that made me quit GWZ... at least propose sensible arguments if you must argue.

imspace was an econ player not a rusher.... i think i remember him similiar to suworrow mass refs/tits without the powerplaying. suworrow also isnt on the list.... and kalle was more skilled than looka going into long game, kalle also had a good nod.

imspace was exact same style as wodkabull, certainly not an econ player, far more emphasis on rushing with disrs, just like silverfox, ray, urab and many others,
doesnt mean they cant play econ from time to time, but its not their strength,

surrow is on the list, because he pioneered gdi powerplay,
prime kalle and prime lo0ka were two different beasts, lo0ka far better

Edited by SkeletonNod, 22 April 2010 - 07:25 PM.

[phatmouse]

No need to get defensive Skeleton Nod, but I don't see any faults in my logic.
Here are some facts for everybody: (lets just forget about what you say for a minute)

1. You say to competed against the top level of competition in August 08' (lets just forget that activity was low and August is usually the month for kids to return to school)
2. 9 out of your 30 players are labeled "present" while the majority quit during 2005 or so. (9 is a stretch as i have reduced that number to about 5)
3. 25 of those players never focused / cared about 1vs1 games but rather focused their time and energies to winning the clan ladder.
4. You never played / saw those 25 players play amongst themselves, how can you rate them? word of mouth? fabrications?
5. You have a history as a script kiddy who auto started games and as a cheater that fills up the time slot from 99-to 2008 when you finally won the ladder ( evidence shows that u dodged and fixed options and you have already admitted to using " fiends" )
6. You have been parading around since august 08' claiming victory over TS while making ppl laugh in the process
7. You have proven to be able to fake SS's and mislead people about facts with bogus charts, phony rants, and media.

Just had to clear all that up again for a minute.

Now back to basketball. You verbally ejaculated this stupid sh.t "But Michael Jordans #1 ranking is not based on what the bulls accomplished, its based on what he accomplished, when you understand that you will understand why your whole clan argument is defunct."

So tell me, what exactly did MJ accomplish? How do the bulls not factor into this equation?

-How is MJ's ranking not based upon the bulls success?
-The bulls were the only team MJ ever played for and he put up great numbers in both assists and points.
-Show me when did MJ ever play against a whole team by himself.

It might not be the best example but I am trying to point out the fact that in team competition, you can't just attribute all the success to just one individual person, its a group effort and the team plays a substantial role in that success.
Take Lebron James or Kobe bryant for example. they are both highly regarded as the next Jordan and while the success of their teams owes them a great deal of credit, they certainly do not receive all the awards. You would still have to recognize Lamar Odom, Shaq, etc..

You are speaking from a very selfish point of view Skeleton Nod.

Lol and Orochi, I was running out of names and stonehigh has gotten pretty good!

Edited by phatmouse, 22 April 2010 - 07:37 PM.

[dan3157]

What people say on GWZ is irrelevant, they like to use me as a talking point, a person to gang up against, it gives them a common bond, i dont mind it, i find what they say about me quite comical, but often they deliberately twist facts and lie to discredit me and my accomplishments.
Take everything they say about me with a 5 pinches of salt.

I've started looking over old GWZ topics.

Since you keep bring up your August 2008 win streak, you must have saved your XWIS player stats for that month (for example, here's puzzibaer?

[GuestAccount]

No need to get defensive Skeleton Nod, but I don't see any faults in my logic.
Here are some facts for everybody: (lets just forget about what you say for a minute)

1. You say to competed against the top level of competition in August 08' (lets just forget that activity was low and August is usually the month for kids to return to school)
2. 9 out of your 30 players are labeled "present" while the majority quit during 2005 or so. (9 is a stretch as i have reduced that number to about 5)
3. 25 of those players never focused / cared about 1vs1 games but rather focused their time and energies to winning the clan ladder.
4. You never played / saw those 25 players play amongst themselves, how can you rate them? word of mouth? fabrications?
5. You have a history as a script kiddy who auto started games and as a cheater that fills up the time slot from 99-to 2008 when you finally won the ladder ( evidence shows that u dodged and fixed options and you have already admitted to using " fiends" )
6. You have been parading around since august 08' claiming victory over TS while making ppl laugh in the process
7. You have proven to be able to fake SS's and mislead people about facts with bogus charts, phony rants, and media.

Just had to clear all that up again for a minute.

Now back to basketball. You verbally ejaculated this stupid sh.t "But Michael Jordans #1 ranking is not based on what the bulls accomplished, its based on what he accomplished, when you understand that you will understand why your whole clan argument is defunct."

So tell me, what exactly did MJ accomplish? How do the bulls not factor into this equation?

-How is MJ's ranking not based upon the bulls success?
-The bulls were the only team MJ ever played for and he put up great numbers in both assists and points.
-Show me when did MJ ever play against a whole team by himself.


Lol and Orochi, I was running out of names and stonehigh is pretty good!

1) I competed against everyone.
2) so what?
3) false
4) false
5) semi false
6) ??
7) ive been proven to educate the community in how to spot a fake ss

as for MJ, what earned him his #1 spot is the miracle shots, the amazing skill, crazy dunks, shooting the ball with his eyes closed,
and all the other accomplishments he earned, the MVPs awards, that championships, only for the bulls but for the all star teams,
just producing magical play and talent of s supreme rarity, similar to schaf in that respect,
that skill and talent wouldnt have been lost had he swapped the colour of his jersey, the same way schafs skill and talent wouldnt have been lost had he changed the letters in his clan tag,

but in any case, basketball is a team sport, tiberian sometimes is, and sometimes isnt, thats why the comparison with tennis was a better one to use,
and as they have it, they have seperate singles and doubles rankings, so feel free to make your own doubles rankings thread, nobody is stopping you

[phatmouse]

1) I competed against everyone.
2) so what?
3) false
4) false
5) semi false
6) ??
7) ive been proven to educate the community in how to spot a fake ss

as for MJ, what earned him his #1 spot is the miracle shots, the amazing skill, crazy dunks, shooting the ball with his eyes closed,
and all the other accomplishments he earned, the MVPs awards, that championships, only for the bulls but for the all star teams,
just producing magical play and talent of s supreme rarity, similar to schaf in that respect,
that skill and talent wouldnt have been lost had he swapped the colour of his jersey, the same way schafs skill and talent wouldnt have been lost had he changed the letters in his clan tag,

but in any case, basketball is a team sport, tiberian sometimes is, and sometimes isnt, thats why the comparison with tennis was a better one to use,
and as they have it, they have seperate singles and doubles rankings, so feel free to make your own doubles rankings thread, nobody is stopping you

I like how you maintain your assertiveness even when you are clearly wrong:
1. How did you compete against everyone in August 08 when the top 5 players on your list are marked 2005?
2. This just re validates my previous point.
3. Prove it. Did you know these players? General consensus amongst the TS community is that you did not.
4. Prove it.
5. Explain
6. Are you having trouble understanding something?
7. Your "education" was nothing new, people have known you can fake SS for years.


And I agree with you logically, MJ was an amazing player who did amazing things in key situations, but he also had scotty pippen backing him up and dennis rodman rebounding 2.

The same goes into account for dachschaf playing with dachziege. Sure schaf was a great player but he had a solid teammate that allowed him to maneuver and helped him a lot in double teaming and forcing tactics.

I doubt schaf would have been able to do half the amazing things he did had he been coupled with harry5sub against sharks and mutiny at the time. ( no offense to harry5sub)

[GuestAccount]

I like how you maintain your assertiveness even when you are clearly wrong:
1. How did you compete against everyone in August 08 when the top 5 players on your list are marked 2005?
2. This just re validates my previous point.
3. Prove it. Did you know these players? General consensus amongst the TS community is that you did not.
4. Prove it.
5. Explain
6. Are you having trouble understanding something?
7. Your "education" was nothing new, people have known you can fake SS for years.


8)And I agree with you logically, MJ was an amazing player who did amazing things in key situations, but he also had scotty pippen backing him up and dennis rodman rebounding 2.

9)The same goes into account for dachschaf playing with dachziege. Sure schaf was a great player but he had a solid teammate that allowed him to maneuver and helped him a lot in double teaming and forcing tactics.

10)I doubt schaf would have been able to do half the amazing things he did had he been coupled with harry5sub against sharks and mutiny at the time. ( no offense to harry5sub)

1) must be a misunderstanding, to clarify, i competed against everyone on my list, of course when they were active, if they werent active in 2008, why even ask if i competed against them in 2008, its self explanatory, right?
2) ????
3) the onus isnt on me to prove anything, my stats are of more value than the opinion of a few perma banned cheaters on GWZ.
4) the onus isnt on me to prove anything
5) its irrelevant to this thread, feel free to make a new thread if you want clarification on something
6) doesnt seem like a question i can really respond to
7) yeh ive been telling people how to spot them for years, let us not forget megaf0rce caught you mapping and faking screens to, but unlike you, i actually released how to spot fake screens, because i want that bs gone from this game,
8) oh yeah scotty pippen must have slide a trampoline underneath MJ everytime MJ dunked lol, you are right, what was i thinking?
9) yeh ziege must have been in schafs bedroom in a miniskirt with pom poms cheering him on when schaf was dominating everyone in 1v1s.
10) congratulations, you just proved why using clans is useless for determining singles rankings.


this clan argument is ad nauseum now,

Edited by SkeletonNod, 22 April 2010 - 08:26 PM.

[phatmouse]

1) must be a misunderstanding, to clarify, i competed against everyone on my list, of course when they were active, if they werent active in 2008, why even ask if i competed against them in 2008, its self explanatory, right?
2) ????
3) the onus isnt on me to prove anything, my stats are of more value than the opinion of a few perma banned cheaters on GWZ.
4) the onus isnt on me to prove anything
5) its irrelevant to this thread, feel free to make a new thread if you want clarification on something
6) doesnt seem like a question i can really respond to
7) yeh ive been telling people how to spot them for years, let us not forget megaf0rce caught you mapping and faking screens to, but unlike you, i actually released how to spot fake screens, because i want that bs gone from this game,
8) oh yeah scotty pippen must have slide a trampoline underneath MJ everytime MJ dunked lol, you are right, what was i thinking?
9) yeh ziege must have been in schafs bedroom in a miniskirt with pom poms cheering him on when schaf was dominating everyone in 1v1s.
10) congratulations, you just proved why using clans is useless for determining singles rankings.


this clan argument is ad nauseum now,

1. What you meant to say is that you cheated against everyone on your list.
2. ????
3. I don't know what onus means?
4. Again, are you speaking English?
5. If you are going to include yourself in a top 10 then your cheating history is relevant to this topic.
6. Yes or no answer would have sufficed.
7. Prove it but again dodging the point.
8. You cannot use trampoline's in the NBA
9. It is possible, they did play in the same room many of times together.
10.Pretty self-explanatory if you ask me, I am not arguing for or against that logic.


You still haven't acknowledge the fact that the names in your list were mainly 2vs2 players and were judged upon their 2vs2 skills,therefore making your whole post a waste of my time.

[GuestAccount]

1. What you meant to say is that you cheated against everyone on your list.
2. ????
3. I don't know what onus means?
4. Again, are you speaking English?
5. If you are going to include yourself in a top 10 then your cheating history is relevant to this topic.
6. Yes or no answer would have sufficed.
7. Prove it but again dodging the point.
8. You cannot use trampoline's in the NBA
9. It is possible, they did play in the same room many of times together.
10.Pretty self-explanatory if you ask me, I am not arguing for or against that logic.


You still haven't acknowledge the fact that the names in your list were mainly 2vs2 players and were judged upon their 2vs2 skills,therefore making your whole post a waste of my time.

It just goes to show you cant be too careful

[phatmouse]

To annoy? To entertain? To be heard? To acquire recognition? To waste time?

Maybe you just enjoy arguing with people?

To inform? To manipulate? To have fun?

Edited by phatmouse, 23 April 2010 - 06:11 PM.