170 replies to this topic

[Sovereign]

Prep I'm in favour of your renovations: I think it'll make it interesting and yr qm needs that. But any map with water in is completely lame avy and svy: there's literally no stopping boomer rush. For that reason maps like cold war should not be played vs yuri.

Also I agree with tj in that bf and dune should be left in avs: it might be hard for allies, but I always relish the challenge rather than complaining. No sov player that I'd usually own would really get a win against me there.

sir you saw how it is though.. a simple base trade really can decide it.. and since rhinos obv have more firepower its obv who is gonna win usually.

[Kundalini]

The rest, their still overpowered and going to be hell to match. At least it wont be the 5 maps of doom anymore lol.

That's the spirit.

[ExpaNd]

Well said Strategst, I said something similar earlier. The so called best players don't want to adjust their game to overcome Yuri, they'd rather sit on the forums crying about how overpowered Yuri is.

i've adjusted my game and have defeated alot of good Yuri players.

the fact that they are overpowered still stands.

it's not that "they can't be beaten"

its the fact that they have the upper hand in most games,

i admit it is different to fight, but please tell me a NON derrick map, where yuri has a disadvantage, Vs sov of course. considering i am a soviet player

And even tho sovs have the Adv on GSF and dry heat, thats not to many maps.

Add sinkhole into Yuri vs sov.
then lets hear all the yuri players cry about sov players being overpowered.

other then that, TJ said what was on my mind, Gj sir =]

any questions or help needed pm me or just ask

Edited by iAmaLeGeNd, 28 February 2009 - 06:13 AM.

[Babak]

Well you said it yourself, your an average yuri player. It's time for you to earn your ranks .

Like I said pro allied > pro yuri, average allies > average yuri and most likely newb allies > newb yuri

I still think your prejudice and your problem is that as a pro you lose from time to time to a yuri player, but you have never played as yuri vs a good allies. It is much harder than you think and all the advantages you think yuri has honestly will not count for much when the mirages and prisms rape your army and your disks get owned by bf.

It is a shame that you turned a cool idea about new maps into a vendeta against yuri, we only want to be your friends

I disagree, IMO good enough Yuri > pro allied, and assuming the players have equal skill levels, Yuri would win.

Every side has the ability to camp. The soviets have the counter measure of engineer and two drones in a flak track to capture your con yard or drone it if you repack.

No way, Yuri is camp master, and what the soviets and allies can do pales in comparison. And when I'm Yuri I always wall my MCV...

its the fact that they have the upper hand in most games,

That's exactly the problem, every component of Yuri is overpowered. He has better, more resilient economy, better camping, better navy, better superweapons, better units against soviets and formidable units against allies and more cheap tricks. Yuri is not as awesome at scouting EARLY ON but that quickly changes.
I think Yuri is so inherently overpowered that it's really impossible to balance the game without making balance changes and introducing new Yuri naval units.

But have yall ever wondered how good water would be against yuri? Obviously it wouldnt be that much due to gats/mags, but everybody goes a way from water, when I think it could help greatly.

Don't bother with water maps. Yuri just kills when there's water. One boomer can end the game. Late game, mass disks and Yuri Prime over water are the perfect pressure. Magnetrons and gattling bunkers actually make A/S naval units useless. And I remember a few clan matches when I was versing allies with Yuri on Tourny B. All you have to do is build a naval yard where the enemy can see it, and they panic and start making IFV's and naval yard, while you tech and kill them easily (i.e. misdirection). Next game they know your ploy, and you kill them with a boomer. Third game they ask for a different map

PS. To all the yuri fans, yuri is incredibly overpowered and if u don't realize that your not too smart. Nobody is trying to bash yuri, we want the game to be fair. And for the most part, the top players in yr history never liked yuri BECAUSE it is overpowered. So I don't know why your complaining, when this reno is done more people will be willing to play you.

QFT


Anyways, I think it's worth trying AvY supers being OFF (not random). The problem with random supers is, it doesn't change the behaviour of the players. I learnt that after AvS supers was randomised. The soviet player would still rush tech and try to build IC. Now if supers was off, he'd be somewhat disadvantages and the game might favour the allied. But if the supers happened to be on, the imbalance would stand. So essentially, games would be heavily influenced by the flip of the coin that decides the supers on/off status. So I think AvY supers should be put to off.

Edited by -DejaVu-, 28 February 2009 - 07:13 AM.

[t3h J3w]

This is the rough draft, to talk in school terms, If I had to turn it in today this is how it'd be. But you (the community) is here to discuss, proof-read, and feel out any mistakes I possibly made.

I. Maps To Be Eliminated from 'Normal Combat':
1. Anytown, Amerika // ALL
2. Defcon 6 // AvS*
3. Dune Patrol // AvS*
4. Blood Feud // AvS*
5. Deadman's Ridge // AvS

*NOTE: When I say AvS, that means that it is only eliminated in AvS situations, and NOT eliminated in mirrors.

II. Maps to Be Eliminated from Yuri Combat:

1. Hidden Valley
2. Blood Feud
3. Urban Rush
4. Dune Patrol // AvY*
5. Dry Heat
6. Dustbowl


*NOTE: When I say AvY that means only that should be eliminated, and not SvY, and vice versa.

III. The 'Normal Combat' situation maps to be added:

1. El Dorado // SvS AvA AvS
2. Hail Mary // SvS AvA AvS
3. Happy Trails // SvS AvA AvS
4. Let There Be Fight // SvS AvA
5. Little Piece of dune // SvS AvA
6. Loaded Barrel // SvS AvA AvS
7. Twin Peaks // SvS AvA AvS
8. Breakaway // SvS AvA AvS
9. Canyon Fodder // SvS AvA AvS
10. Killer Instict // SvS AvA AvS
11. Arena // SvS AvA
12. Brink of Disaster // SvS AvA AvS
13. City Under siege // SvS AvA AvS
14. Four Corners // SvS AvA AvS
15. Frostbite // SvS AvA AvS
16. Ground Zero // SvS AvA
17. Head for the Hills // SvS AvA AvS
18. Isle of Oades // SvS AvA AvS
19. Lost Lake // SvS AvA AvS
20. Mount Olympus // SvS AvA AvS
21. Pacific Heights // SvS AvA AvS
22. Rockets Red Glare // SvS AvA AvS
23. Shrapnel Mountain // SvS AvA AvS
24. Sinkhole // SvS
25. Snowballs Chance // SvS AvA AvS
26. Tower of Power // SvS AvA AvS
27. Tsunami // SvS AvA AvS
28. Valley Of Gems // SvS AvA AvS
29. Bering Straight // SvS AvA
30. Bridging the Gap // SvS AvA AvS
31. Malibu Cliffs // SvS AvA AvS
32. Heck Freezes Over // SvS AvA AvS
33. A path Beyond II // SvS AvA AvS
34. Near Ore Far // SvS AvA AvS
35. Offic Tourny Map 4 // SvS AvA AvS
36. Double Trouble // SvS AvA AvS
37. Austin, TX // SvS AvA AvS
38. Sea of isolation // SvS AvA AvS
39. Turfwar // SvS AvA AvS
40. Oceanside // SvS AvA AvS
41. Trailer Park // SvS AvA AvS
42. Army of The Potamac // SvS AvA AvS
43. Downtown, Cityville // SvS AvA AvS


IV. The Maps to be Added to Yuri QM:

1. Happy trails // SvY AvY
2. Head for the Hills // SvY AvY
3. Soverign Land // AvY
4. Cold War // SvY AvY
5. Brink of disaster // AvY
6. Lost lake // AvY SvY
7. Mt Olympus // AvY
8. Paris revisited // SvY AvY
9. Snowballs chance // SvY AvY
10. Tanyas training grounds // SvY AvY
11. Tower of power // SvY AvY
12. Arena 33 forever // SvY AvY
13. Bridging the gap // SvY AvY
14. Defcon 6 // SvY AvY
15. Malibu cliffs // SvY AvY
16. Heck freezes over // AvY SvY
17. Double trouble // AvY
18. East vs Best // AvY

V. NOTES:

1. In yuri QM, turn supers OFF in AvY situations.





What do yall think? Im having a hard time adding maps to yuri qm. I am finding out that SvY situations that are fair are near dam impossible to find. AvY is a much more fair level, and I think due to this renovation it will become 100% fair to be an allied player vs. yuri or a yuri player vs yuri.

Please discuss here, keep in mind I need opinions on balance of maps, and yuri situations the most!!

You're planning on adding 43 new maps to qm. No one else sees this as overkill?

Also, the best thing to do for YR balance is elminating the Yuri faction from qm.

Edited by t3h J3w, 28 February 2009 - 09:34 AM.

[Sovereign]

i do agree with the above statement... too many times is yuri abused. you yuri people can say "we dont adapt we dont change" but in all honesty its you who doesnt.. you do the same bos over and over? ive never seen a yuri go an extra war before tech. ive never seen a yuri do anything but spam mms mags and discs. if you think we should adapt why dont you? in all honesty yuri should be eliminated from competitive play. continuously playing an overpowered faction is incredibly annoying. why should we the community (atleast 60 percent of it) have to listen to the 40 percent of you who think yuri is "underpowered" could we not use majority rules here? sure we may cater to ra2 but lets not forget yuri is mostly why weve lost people TO ra2.. i move for a vote of eliminating yuri from competitive qm play.

[Kundalini]

No way, Yuri is camp master, and what the soviets and allies can do pales in comparison. And when I'm Yuri I always wall my MCV...

But they still have the ability to camp, nevermind whose the best.

Also, the best thing to do for YR balance is elminating the Yuri faction from qm.

That's just stupid, it wouldn't be YR. Go play RA2 if you don't like Yuri. Oh, wait, Yuri is on the soviet side in RA2. You'd be better off with RA1.

[XXxPrePxX]

Really appreciate the comments.

Don't bother with water maps. Yuri just kills when there's water. One boomer can end the game. Late game, mass disks and Yuri Prime over water are the perfect pressure. Magnetrons and gattling bunkers actually make A/S naval units useless. And I remember a few clan matches when I was versing allies with Yuri on Tourny B. All you have to do is build a naval yard where the enemy can see it, and they panic and start making IFV's and naval yard, while you tech and kill them easily (i.e. misdirection). Next game they know your ploy, and you kill them with a boomer. Third game they ask for a different map tongue.gif

COLD War is now eliminated from yuri battle.

LOST LAKE is now eliminated from yuri battle.

Also, the best thing to do for YR balance is elminating the Yuri faction from qm.

While that may be the best thing to do.... yuri still is a part of the game. Instead of eliminating it from qm, lets just use the maps to hinder its ability.

ou yuri people can say "we dont adapt we dont change" but in all honesty its you who doesnt..

That's how I feel. I adapt every game to yuri. I do things i'd never do vs a sov or allied. But enough with this arguement, let's discuss maps!:

You're planning on adding 43 new maps to qm. laugh.gif No one else sees this as overkill?

Whether its 43 or 20 or 10 it doesnt really matter, their all fun, well balanced, and the more the merrier! At least I will never have to deal with 2 maps in a row!!


We need more maps to yuri qm!! What maps should be added? I had a hard as hell time picking the few that I did, but if we can get a good 4-6 more it'd be perfect.


I'd like to get the final draft turned in sometime withing the next few days!! So we can get this renovation going!

[Crisis]

i do agree with the above statement... too many times is yuri abused. you yuri people can say "we dont adapt we dont change" but in all honesty its you who doesnt.. you do the same bos over and over? ive never seen a yuri go an extra war before tech. ive never seen a yuri do anything but spam mms mags and discs. if you think we should adapt why dont you? in all honesty yuri should be eliminated from competitive play. continuously playing an overpowered faction is incredibly annoying. why should we the community (atleast 60 percent of it) have to listen to the 40 percent of you who think yuri is "underpowered" could we not use majority rules here? sure we may cater to ra2 but lets not forget yuri is mostly why weve lost people TO ra2.. i move for a vote of eliminating yuri from competitive qm play.

lol actually have you seen dave/allen's multi war yuri bo?
that bo owns any allied player on any big map

[Sovereign]

prob is... no yuri player today is innovative. theyre all garbage and think theyre the **** cuz they have tank bunkers and mags. just get rid of yuri from qm. sure itll be like ra2 but perhaps thats why ra2 has more players?

[t3h J3w]

But they still have the ability to camp, nevermind whose the best.


That's just stupid, it wouldn't be YR. Go play RA2 if you don't like Yuri. Oh, wait, Yuri is on the soviet side in RA2. You'd be better off with RA1.

No, it wouldn't be ra2. In case you haven't noticed ra2 is a very different game Allied vs Soviet. Yuri should never have been introduced into competitive play. People have been saying it's overpowered for years and it's not going to change. The only people who have ever said Yuri is balanced are people who achieved their highest ranks WITH YURI. And that's a fact.

While that may be the best thing to do.... yuri still is a part of the game. Instead of eliminating it from qm, lets just use the maps to hinder its ability.


Whether its 43 or 20 or 10 it doesnt really matter, their all fun, well balanced, and the more the merrier! At least I will never have to deal with 2 maps in a row!!

Yeah Yuri is part of the game. The same is true for how QM was orginally set up where allied players had severe disadvantages on some maps and sov players on others. But, that didn't stop the community from changing that. Why would we allow people to continue to abuse an overpowered faction?

Your the more the merrier philosophy caters to people who have absolutely no life besides this game. Who is going to learn 70 maps? Nobody who functions in society.

Edited by t3h J3w, 01 March 2009 - 12:14 AM.

[XXxPrePxX]

Your the more the merrier philosophy caters to people who have absolutely no life besides this game. Who is going to learn 70 maps? Nobody who functions in society. mellow.gif

It really isnt that hard, if you qm for one month, a good amount daily, you will learn all the maps.

Most hte players know a good 40-50 current maps, the other 30 they dont know should be np learning within a few gameplays.

I played with marko, the thing he told me (which is the same way i feel), is that he looks at minimap, and already has a bo.

It's really not that hard...

I don't have a bo on any map, i just do things...

[t3h J3w]

It really isnt that hard, if you qm for one month, a good amount daily, you will learn all the maps.

Most hte players know a good 40-50 current maps, the other 30 they dont know should be np learning within a few gameplays.

I played with marko, the thing he told me (which is the same way i feel), is that he looks at minimap, and already has a bo.

It's really not that hard...

I don't have a bo on any map, i just do things...

By most of the players I assume you mean possibly the top 50? That's a small percentage of the players who play this game.

You're going to tell me you don't have a bo on maps like little big lake and heck freezes over? Maps like those are hugely based on having a good build order. You can have great tc, fluid tank movement and still lose there. Let's face it, the best players may not use the same bo every time on every map, but they have several variations ready to go. They're not **** footing around.

[XXxPrePxX]

You're going to tell me you don't have a bo on maps like little big lake and heck freezes over? Maps like those are hugely based on having a good build order. You can have great tc, fluid tank movement and still lose there. Let's face it, the best players may not use the same bo every time on every map, but they have several variations ready to go. They're not **** footing around.

isnt that what seperates part of the best players from the worst?

lbl is not in qm, and reminder heck is in qm, but of course its not lvr or tvb so bo's will still be a litttle different

[t3h J3w]

isnt that what seperates part of the best players from the worst?

lbl is not in qm, and reminder heck is in qm, but of course its not lvr or tvb so bo's will still be a litttle different

That's exactly what seperates the best players from the average and **** players.


You're changing the game so it favours people with MORE TIME.

Edited by t3h J3w, 01 March 2009 - 09:53 AM.

[SovForce1]

i agree not many big maps shud be added medium maps r fine. it is "quick"match after all not every1 finds it fun to play the bigest maps they can find for qm for a rank if they wanted that thed go join a stupid sedona games with awarking and camp with bunkers.

18. Isle of Oades // SvS AvA AvS unfair map right sides gets alota gems
27. Tsunami // SvS AvA AvS shud be a mirror match no way are allied going to lose here
31. Malibu Cliffs // SvS AvA AvS < wtf this isnt custom match just becuz its in ra2 doesnt mean its good for qm this stuipid map takes forever espeshly if u play a noob like isenheart.
36. Double Trouble // SvS AvA AvS unfair shud be a mirror match here 2 allied wud win with ease

[willy]

I agree with everything except Tsunami (2-4) AvS.
I'm all for the changes Prep has induced.

[XXxPrePxX]

36. Double Trouble // SvS AvA AvS unfair shud be a mirror match here 2 allied wud win with ease

I didn't know I put that as AvS, it's changed now .

31. Malibu Cliffs // SvS AvA AvS < wtf this isnt custom match just becuz its in ra2 doesnt mean its good for qm this stuipid map takes forever espeshly if u play a noob like isenheart.

Malibu cliffs is a legit map, it's one that really takes alot of skill to win, moving ur mcv places, its good for both allieds and soviets.

27. Tsunami // SvS AvA AvS shud be a mirror match no way are allied going to lose here

Id have to disagree, alleids lose all the time on depth/alaskan.

18. Isle of Oades // SvS AvA AvS unfair map right sides gets alota gems

You mean left? Either way, its a solid map, and can overcome the gems.

[XXxPrePxX]

To the people who are not agreeing with some of the avy or svy maps, state why please....

and once again, if u disagree with a map selection, then dont just disagree with it, find a map to replace it. SvY maps are the HARDEST fair maps to find, good luck finding ones that are better then the ones i choose :S.

[XXxPrePxX]

no. dune shouldnt be played vs yuri period.

and don't like sovereign land or defcon for AvY.

NO. I don't think maps like sovereign land, defcon and tanya's training grounds (to name a few) are remotely fair vs yuri; I'd rather keep dh and hidden valley than them.

NO so unfair map for game without yuri team

No to removing Hidden Valley from Yuri combat.
No to turning off super weapons in AvY games.

i don't agree with some of the svy maps, but it's good enuff for me smile.gif

NO to the Yuri additions because the majority are too large.

Not one person has a suggestion for yuris revenge qm? Why? Becuase there Isn't any fair maps. All maps are unfair!!!! You must understand this people, everything you do with yuri, is unfair. its like a political debate, one side wants to do one thing, then the yuri players come in and say your doing far to much damage.

I say either make it near impossible for yuri to win, if that is possible, which i dont think it is, even on maps i have now yuri is very overpowerd. Or ELIMINATE yuri from qm.

im almost to the point were i think eliminating yuri from qm is hte way to go. its impossible to please anyone with yuri stuff....

NAME SOME MAP SUGGESTIONS for yuri warfare... i'd like to see how anyone else does at finding maps for yuri vs allies or yuri vs soviets.

[Sovereign]

i vote for elimination of yuri warfare. shall i make a poll?

[aMurdock]

No you shouldn't.

[SovForce1]

Id have to disagree, alleids lose all the time on depth/alaskan.

hmm i still think allied wud win with 6 oils dont u ?

[tRiPPy]

I don't really care but isn't canyon fodder ridiculously unfair? OIS always used to pick this map and made sure he got a certain spot because it gets to mid much faster than the others. also I can't see allies beating sovs here unless they're france.

[XXxPrePxX]

I don't really care but isn't canyon fodder ridiculously unfair? OIS always used to pick this map and made sure he got a certain spot because it gets to mid much faster than the others. also I can't see allies beating sovs here unless they're france.

it'd be a good camp map for allies, but i hear ur point 100% eliminted from avs.

and after playing it a while i think tis fair all spots can stretch to mid